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kguarnotta Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2004 Posts: 1160 Location: Woodstock, NH
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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Yeah - I understand they don't agree - I've got a message into them to find the answer.
OK - I talked to amazon- they didn't know what they were shipping - so I cancelled the order. I see the description at top says quarts, and case, but for size it was gallons.
So I went back and ordered individual quarts. 6 of them for $33. Should be enough - for after the first flush. Thanks for pushing me to get to the bottom of this... _________________ -Kevin
Lincoln, MA
'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper |
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kguarnotta Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2004 Posts: 1160 Location: Woodstock, NH
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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I got the transmission installed - it was from Matt Steedle.
I had a few other things done by my mechanic at the same time - things that are infinitely easier on a lift (which I don't have).
It is a little sticky shifting into 2nd - he said he had to modify a bushing to even get it to go into 2nd. I drove it a little - then unfortunately a wheel came off - right before I was going to go back and ask to do a transmission flush. (around 200 miles). This caused some damage...to say the least. Improperly torqued lug nuts.
I just got it back again today - He flushed the transmission fluid - and it came out like this
What do you guys think? It looks a little sludgy..not sure why that is. _________________ -Kevin
Lincoln, MA
'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50356
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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What oil was in there? That stuff looks really really thick. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9628 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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Agreed that looks sludgy.
Not many people kow what 200 mile magnets are supposed to look like, you are one of the pioneers.
But aren't you glad you didn't drive it 500 or 1,000 miles with that stuff in your gearbox?
And do you wish you did first flush at 100 miles?
Wow.
Thanks for the pics.
How many new gears do you have .vs. "bedded in" gears?
I had all my new gears REM polished (by Weddle) to remove some of the trash before break-in.
GT Gears REM-polishes their gears too now.
I wonder if it helps.
I'd be careful with your trans for awhile, give it a gentle break-in.
Shift in/out of 4th gear often, be careful not to lug it, let it spin free & easy, for as long as you can.
I'veno idea how long it takes to burnish the shafts.
Shifting out of 4th gear, putting it back into 4th spins the needle bearing, in hopes the needles land in a random location each time.
In 3rd gear, 3rd is locked to the shaft. 3rd's needle bearing is stationary in 3rd.
Your 4th is spinning on it's needle bearing, burnishing the shaft gently.
In 4th gear, 4th is locked to the shaft. 4th's needle bearing is stationary in 4th.
Your 3rd is spinning on it's needle bearing, burnishing the shaft gently.
Kinda ideal.... would be to go on a trip on 50-60 mph roads where you shift 3rd-4th-3rd-4th a lot.
Dana went on a long trip with high loads 'too early' I think, his needles sat in one place in 4th gear much too long, under high loads.
And he may have had oil that's "too thin" for an EJ25 that was bedding in a new trans (under high loads).
Or some crazy water-ingestion problem that ruined the film-strength of the gear oil.
heartbreaking.....😱😭
from thread: Vanaru Conversion complete, M. Steedle Trans - 2wd pics
dsdunbar's brinnelled mainshaft still gives me the willies.
Choosing oil that "shifts well" gives me the same willies.
I'drather use a thick lubricant to protect against the over-engining, and "shift slower". Double-clutch ing at times.
But congrats Kevin, you're ready for Van season! _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2333 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:18 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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The oil's condition looks almost unbelievable.
If everything was new (they do come from the factory new), the oil should not look like that in a mere 200 miles or even 20k miles.
I flushed my DK build several times in the early going and it has probably been changed at least 6 times in 85k miles and the oil basically looked like it did when I dumped it in. Yes, there has been swarf on the magnetic drain plug, more so early on as might be expected.
I've torn down numerous 3-rib 002 transmissions from mud buggies with water in some of them and maybe some mud and none of them had oil that looks like that crap.
Other than the shifter shaft bushing, I cannot think of any place inside the trans that contains a bushing. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17157 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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Stock differential? If not, I wonder if some additive was put in there. All you can do is refill run and check. Bummer about the wheel. Factory torque is around 110 foot pounds. Some of the aftermarket steel wheels I've come across don't seem to like that much torque. I think even GW wheels recommend less torque than stock. Never had a problem torqing factory alloys or steel wheels to the factory spec. _________________ ☮️ |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9628 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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Photos of drain plug magnets can vary wildly.
Thin oil vs thick oil.
Dark oil vs light oil
Drained driven hot vs parked for 3 weeks (months, years).
Washed in gasoline vs 'not'.
Photography / camera / perspective / lens distortion variations
Aftermarket drain magnet variations
I'm not sure theres a way to develop a drain magnet standard.
I don't think there is any way to develop 'a sludge' per se in 200 miles.
Is that Swepco 210?
My best assessment is that there is a large amount of "larger" ferrous particles from the manufacturing of the 'new gears'.
If they are big enough for the magnet to hold them in a clump, they are big enough to dent and add fatigue cycles to your bearing surfaces.
You want them out of the trans early and often.
They will eventually get rolled out flat and become 'benign' (the paste of wet leaves) but you the damage and fatigue that they cause during the 'rolling out' process is costing miles on the 'far end'.
Thick oil cushions the bearings from the bedding-in trash that develops, consequently may 'extend the bedding-in period'. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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kguarnotta Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2004 Posts: 1160 Location: Woodstock, NH
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Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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Thanks for so many replies - I'm a bit overwhelmed with the knowledge, and also juggling work & family stuff.
To be clear- the oil that drained out was fairly normal (according to Mechanic) it was just the drain plug that had that sludge on it. He thought that was a bit weird.
Everything is new in the transmission (ie all new gears). I will drain again in about 200 miles. I put Valvoline 80 90 in there now.
I'm trying to be gentle with tranny - short drives all under 45 min.
What do you mean by "Let is spin free and easy" Do you mean while on the highway - pop it into neutral then back into 4th?
And odd question (maybe should be a new thread) but when he put it back together the gas gauge stopped working. He figures he knocked a wire loose - he couldn't find it. I could have left it with him to diagnose longer, but I wanted to drive it. Any tips on where to find this wire - I've not taken a look myself yet...but looking for knowledge as to where the sender is on a Syncro.
Thanks... _________________ -Kevin
Lincoln, MA
'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16890 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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kguarnotta wrote: |
To be clear- the oil that drained out was fairly normal (according to Mechanic) it was just the drain plug that had that sludge on it. He thought that was a bit weird.
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if that's the case i'd be willing to bet it was the assembly lube Matt uses. i would confirm that with him, but i know a lot of times ass'y lube does odd stuff sometimes... like it doesn't "mix" in like you'd expect _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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kguarnotta Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2004 Posts: 1160 Location: Woodstock, NH
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:36 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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transmission temp gauge - Hey jimf909 - I've got the temp sensor installed in my new transmission - and am going to hook up the temp gauge.
I see yours appears to just be sitting on the dash - is there any sort of bracket holding it in place, and do you have any tips on installing?
I understand I've got to tap off headlight switch as well as a constant hot and switched hot. For folks who have done something like this - do you literally connect to right behind the headlight switch, or should I be tapping into the fuse panel...
I also will be doing another trans fluid flush soon (hopefully this week) I'll post updates.
I also found the fuel sender - and ran some troubleshooting thanks to go westy - I think the connection at the tank was knocked loose, or is a little dirty. I cleaned it and got it working again. _________________ -Kevin
Lincoln, MA
'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2333 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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For illumination, tapping at the light switch would be much easier than delving into the fuse panel, at least that's how I've done it.
For the power to operate the gauge, I've always used "switched" power off the ignition switch. The X circuits are also a good place. They are switched power, but deactivated in the "start" position of the ignition, thus, not ON during the starter cranking. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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kguarnotta Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2004 Posts: 1160 Location: Woodstock, NH
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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Hey ANdy- thanks for the response - any tips on exactly how to wire off the light switch - I have a general idea - but a thread or finger pointed in the right direction might help...
As far as X-circuits - what does that mean?
Another question - ever since the tranny was replaced - the middle knob for my decoupler seems backwards - ie the light comes on when I push it in. Any ideas on troubleshooting that? _________________ -Kevin
Lincoln, MA
'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper |
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bobhill8 Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2017 Posts: 737 Location: MA
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50356
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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kguarnotta wrote: |
Hey ANdy- thanks for the response - any tips on exactly how to wire off the light switch - I have a general idea - but a thread or finger pointed in the right direction might help...
As far as X-circuits - what does that mean?
Another question - ever since the tranny was replaced - the middle knob for my decoupler seems backwards - ie the light comes on when I push it in. Any ideas on troubleshooting that? |
The X circuit is the load reduction circuit. It turns off larger electrical loads during cranking. Functionally it does what Andybees says it does, "The X circuits are also a good place. They are switched power, but deactivated in the "start" position of the ignition, thus, not ON during the starter cranking."
You could just connect the light to the dash illumination circuit. I would want to know the amp draw of the bulb before I did this though. If its an LED it shouldn't hurt to do it this way, but it may not dim the same as the other bulbs. |
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kguarnotta Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2004 Posts: 1160 Location: Woodstock, NH
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 4:13 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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I just flushed the transmission fluid again - this is an additonal 700 miles or so. About 900 miles total.
The fluid came out looking practically new.
I hope this is sort of standard, or what should be expected? _________________ -Kevin
Lincoln, MA
'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7482 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:58 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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kguarnotta wrote: |
transmission temp gauge - Hey jimf909 - I've got the temp sensor installed in my new transmission - and am going to hook up the temp gauge.
I see yours appears to just be sitting on the dash - is there any sort of bracket holding it in place, and do you have any tips on installing?
I understand I've got to tap off headlight switch as well as a constant hot and switched hot. For folks who have done something like this - do you literally connect to right behind the headlight switch, or should I be tapping into the fuse panel...
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No bracket, just the gauge mounted in this $15 Glowshift housing minus the mounting bracket. I put some 3m VHB double stick tape on the bottom and wedge it between the dash and the window gasket. Every six months or so when I need to re-wedge it I think of the slick rare earth magnet idea below.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018ALWOE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I really like this gauge mount using rare earth magnets...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9179525#9179525
For tapping into the dash light circuit, I believe I tapped that by lifting the fuse box out of the hooks ('90) and tapping the grey/blue stripe wire behind the fuse box. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50356
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: Re: new transmission? |
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kguarnotta wrote: |
I just flushed the transmission fluid again - this is an additonal 700 miles or so. About 900 miles total.
The fluid came out looking practically new.
I hope this is sort of standard, or what should be expected? |
That seems like a fair amount of swarth for a second oil change at such low mileage. Maybe get a spare magnetic plug that you can quickly swap out without loosing all your oil and pull it at 500 or 1000 miles and see what it looks like |
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