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Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject: Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

I have a 1600 DP, EMPI extractor, SVDA.
Thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of Brosol /Kadron all setup by those guys with a few options and the good linkage.
Plug & Play sort of.
Your thoughts?


Last edited by Bug53 on Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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grandpa red
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

My 72 came with that set up but with the lower end linkage.Runs good.
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Buy this setup.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2467847
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Do it. They do good work and have good customer service, at least in my experience.
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

do the idf's instead.

had some Kadrons on the bus but have been much happier with the tuneability of the idf carburetor.
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Dont really want Webers and all the jetting / tuning stuff that goes along with them.
Dont really want to go the electric fuel pump, regulator, route either.

Educate me.
Maybe Im wrong.
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Jetting/tuning: You should inquire if the 40 IDFs are set up with jetting for a 1600 engine, such as 28 mm venturies, 115 main jet, and approx. 50 idles. That will get you very close to ideal. The adjustment of the IDF will be needed just line on Kadrons or any other dual carbs as to the linkage settings and the mixture/airflow at idle. IDFs take up more space in the engine compartment, but there are work-arounds for that. Same with Kads; you install them with the air cleaners off so that you have space to reach down from above and get to the front attachment nuts for the manifolds.

As to the Kads- They will provide a significant improvement in performance over the stock Solex single carb. I've done several 1600 engines with Kads (stock and very mild upgrades, with 009 distrib. and a header) and they are lively. IDFs on the same engine are also very nice, and add maybe 5-8 more hp than the Kads. I've also used the original Kad linkage which can work well if you address the weak points, and also a Scat center swivel linkage.

You still have your engine out of the car? If so, remove the fan shroud with the gen/alt to get the stock manifold off easily. Put the shroud back on and test-fit the Kads and manifolds so that you can verify the carb body clearance to the sides of the fan shroud. Then take them off the engine, and put rags into the intake ports or tape them off for the install back into the car. When you start with the Kad installation once the engine is in the car, mount the carb onto each manifold and put one assembly onto the head without the air cleaner. Push down and wiggle the carb so that you are sure the manifold is seated down fully onto the gasket.
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
You still have your engine out of the car? If so, remove the fan shroud with the gen/alt to get the stock manifold off easily. Put the shroud back on and test-fit the Kads and manifolds so that you can verify the carb body clearance to the sides of the fan shroud. Then take them off the engine, and put rags into the intake ports or tape them off for the install back into the car. When you start with the Kad installation once the engine is in the car, mount the carb onto each manifold and put one assembly onto the head without the air cleaner. Push down and wiggle the carb so that you are sure the manifold is seated down fully onto the gasket.


Is there cases where they won't fit with a doghouse type fan shround?
My engine is already in the car but the three piece manifold I have should be a breeze to remove and get out of the way along with the 34PICT3
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Bug53 wrote:
Rome wrote:
You still have your engine out of the car? If so, remove the fan shroud with the gen/alt to get the stock manifold off easily. Put the shroud back on and test-fit the Kads and manifolds so that you can verify the carb body clearance to the sides of the fan shroud. Then take them off the engine, and put rags into the intake ports or tape them off for the install back into the car. When you start with the Kad installation once the engine is in the car, mount the carb onto each manifold and put one assembly onto the head without the air cleaner. Push down and wiggle the carb so that you are sure the manifold is seated down fully onto the gasket.


Is there cases where these Kadron's won't fit with a doghouse type fan shround?
My engine is already in the car but the three piece manifold I have should be a breeze to remove and get out of the way along with the 34PICT3
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

On the 3 or 4 different engines on which I had the Kads, I always had OG fresh air fan shrouds. I don't remember an interference issue with the carb bodies. The original Kad air cleaners I usually had were not centered concentric with the carb throats. This off-center carb throat bore enabled you to rotate them to get clearance between the shroud edge and the side of the engine compartment. If the current air cleaners have centered carb bore holes, then you lose that adjustment possibility but are probably OK.

Does KaddyShack test-run each set so that once you get it, you know it'll run well right from the start? Though chances are that you still need to adjust the linkage crossbars to accomodate the slight differences in width from KS' test engine to yours.
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Does KaddyShack test-run each set so that once you get it, you know it'll run well right from the start? Though chances are that you still need to adjust the linkage crossbars to accomodate the slight differences in width from KS' test engine to yours.


Supposedly when I select their modification option they go thru them, adjust acccelerator pump discharge, discharge aim, re-jet to my needs, etc.
I have to set up the linkages as described on the you tube set-up tutorial.
In some cases I may have to adjust pump output slightly and of course set the idle and mixture.
With the upgraded linkage its very tight and one idle adjustment will affect both sides.
I can also order them with the upgraded throttle bodies with their bushings.
I'm pretty psyched.
Not a cheap departure from the 34PICT3 however. But hey, it's all about my Dub.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Because Kadrons are both the same and not mirror images like most duals there is one idle screw that is virtually impossible to adjust in the car. Very frustrating!
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

The idle speed screws are easy, and with a good linkage, you can get away with only using one side.

The idle MIX screws can be tough unless you have the right tools, then it's cake.

On the pass. side, just get the larger extended thumb screw. You can reach right in and turn it by hand. On the drivers side, go to the hardware store and get a 18-24" long thin blade screw driver. You can reach from behind the fan shroud just above the doghouse cooler, and it is a perfect straight shot to the mix screw. Super easy.

As for the Kads Vs. IDF debate.....I have used both on lots of engines. With new china IDF's, and a CB offset linkage kit, the IDF's are almost cheaper total. I base my decision on the personality of the driver. If they need super simple and reliable, they get Kad's. If they don't mind fidgeting with stuff, and the car is a toy for them, they can have the IDF's. IDF's can be finicky. Kad's will work with a handful of dirt in them. They are one step up from a shitter complexity.

IDF's need some understanding from the owner. It's not tough, but some guys refuse to learn. They also get Kad's.

Brian
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Brian_e wrote:


As for the Kads Vs. IDF debate.....I have used both on lots of engines. With new china IDF's, and a CB offset linkage kit, the IDF's are almost cheaper total. I base my decision on the personality of the driver. If they need super simple and reliable, they get Kad's. If they don't mind fidgeting with stuff, and the car is a toy for them, they can have the IDF's. IDF's can be finicky. Kad's will work with a handful of dirt in them. They are one step up from a shitter complexity.

IDF's need some understanding from the owner. It's not tough, but some guys refuse to learn. They also get Kad's.

Brian

THAT!
Dual IDFs or similar is not for everyone.
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

If it were like years ago where I went to my speed shop and bought jets,etc. IDFs were the way to go. Now everything is 7-10days from Cal.
East coast is out of the loop.
Takes two months to set up a car unless it all works the first time.
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Kadron idle jets are the same as stock solex idles, and the mains are the same as large Mikuni motorcycle jets. The Mikuni jets are smaller size jumps, and they seem to be cheaper also.

Maybe they have more motorcycle shops over there.

Brian
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Brian_e wrote:
Kadron idle jets are the same as stock solex idles, and the mains are the same as large Mikuni motorcycle jets. The Mikuni jets are smaller size jumps, and they seem to be cheaper also.

Maybe they have more motorcycle shops over there.

Brian


Kaddie Shack claims they are changing out jets based on my set-up.
Time will tell.
I'm one week into a 60 day lead time.
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

I have kadrons on my Baja with a 1600DP and stinger. It makes (made) great power...

One of the air filter wing nuts rattled off followed by the top of the air filter... how do you think that went?

Clearly rain has now gotten in and my engine is seized (discovered this latest advancement today).

Id suggest you install a locknut below the top of the air cleaner or a tube around the stud so you can positively tighten up the air cleaner nuts...

What a disaster.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

Quote:
Clearly rain has now gotten in
Dang. I've also had that happen to my Kadrons, though not with the stock, "large" air cleaners but with smaller generic aftermarket chrome ones that had paper elements. Those air cleaners were in place, but rainwater got in through my Beetle's stock louvered engine lid over the winter despite a good breathable car cover, past the partly open intake valves on the right head, and collected in the cylinder. A LOT of water. In the spring, when I started on the annual valve adjustment and removed the hide-away muffler to access the valve cover, water spilled out of the muffler and ran about 10' away across the driveway. Egads. The water coming into the cylinders thru the intake valves must've passed partly through the half-open exhaust valves and worked its way into the muffler.

I pulled the engine, the right side head and both pistons/cylinders. Luckily the crank was not affected and rotated freely but the cylinders were unusable. I still have the engine apart but have new P/C for it. The spare engine in the car now runs really well so I'm in no rush to rebuild the original.

If I were to fit Kads back on the engine, I'd look for a small cover for each air cleaner such as an inverted stainless steel or aluminum dog dish or small snack bowl to divert rainwater from the sides of the air cleaner. I also placed a small plastic tarp over the rear half of the body that extends down over the engine louvers to effectively block any rainwater. The tarp is beneath the car cover.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about a Kadron plug and play setup from Kaddie Shack Reply with quote

The Kadron air cleaners that came on my Manx copy had also worked loose. While the overhang of the body prevented any water from getting in, not so much with the road dust. Both carbs were very dirty inside, the right being much worse than the left. The engine used copious amounts of oil which was good for mosquito control but did nothing for my pride of ownership...
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