Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Differences between 1973 and 1974 412
Forum Index -> 411/412 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NurseryWalt
Samba Member


Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 111
Location: Abbotsford, BC
NurseryWalt is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

As you know, I'm working on a 1973 412 Sedan. The opportunity has come up to possibly buy a 1974 model. I'm just wondering how similar these two years are. Items I am interested in are:
Left and right front fenders
Front windshield
Rear engine trunk lid
Front apron
Front spare tire well
Anything else that might be better than what I have.

Here is the listing: https://www.facebook.com/groups/112738882207890/pe...7628257663

Or would it be a crime to cut up a restorable car?

Thanks for your input,
Walter
_________________
'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19439
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

NurseryWalt wrote:
As you know, I'm working on a 1973 412 Sedan. The opportunity has come up to possibly buy a 1974 model. I'm just wondering how similar these two years are. Items I am interested in are:
Left and right front fenders
Front windshield
Rear engine trunk lid
Front apron
Front spare tire well
Anything else that might be better than what I have.

Here is the listing: https://www.facebook.com/groups/112738882207890/pe...7628257663

Or would it be a crime to cut up a restorable car?

Thanks for your input,
Walter



Well......there could be a debate as to what a "restorable" type 4 car "IS"......kinda like the old argument ....."depends on what the meaning of the word IS....is" Laughing

But with YOUR considerable welding skills its viable......with a couple of unseen risks....that could spoil it.

1. The rocker panel rust and rear fender to quarter panel joint rust....indicates its got water in the foam area. That can be a big issue.

2. The wet condition of the rear seats and the carboard insert behind the seat.....means there is possibly a lot of rust tjrough that panel behind the seat which is structural.

3. You have the rust at the rear corner of both front fenders which at that location wull be into the corners of the pan at some level.

4. Aside from the rust.....lots of dented panels.

So......there is not a chance in this galaxy that the car has only 35k miles on it. That wear to the drivers seat....the hole.....is caused by "ass wear". Wink The vinyl was tough. Typically unless you were really a heavy duty type.....that level of wear is about 80k miles and later. I KNOW.....I have worn out a handful of seats in 411 and 412.

So.....its complete. Yes. But lots of inspection needed to see wjat you really have....and LOTS of work.

So.....the front fenders of 1973 to 1974 are essentially the same. The front valance under the bumper is alightly different as the 1974 has different bumper and mounts. Otherwise they are the same enough above the bumper that i cannot tell.

Very small fine detail differences in the rear hatch mostly very early to later. You would have to have them side by side to tell and its subtle. For the most part they interchange.

Windshield is the same, spare tire well is the same. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NurseryWalt
Samba Member


Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 111
Location: Abbotsford, BC
NurseryWalt is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

Thank you Ray for that quick response. I too was wondering about the driver's seat! We have vehicles at home with many more miles and the seats look pristine in comparison to this one. I always appreciate your rational appraisal of the Type 4s. Will give it some thought.

Walter
_________________
'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NurseryWalt
Samba Member


Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 111
Location: Abbotsford, BC
NurseryWalt is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

The seller of the 1974 412 isn't quite sure what year it is! He just messaged me saying the door tag says 1972. Any way of verifying, i.e. serial number?

Walter
_________________
'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19439
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

NurseryWalt wrote:
The seller of the 1974 412 isn't quite sure what year it is! He just messaged me saying the door tag says 1972. Any way of verifying, i.e. serial number?

Walter


The decal inside the drivers door is usually pretty accurate. The vin # will also generally tell the tale....and that little rectangular badge riveted inside the trunk near the latch should tell the factory and date. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Pepperbilly
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 452
Location: Seattle, Wa
Pepperbilly is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

Walter,

This baby looks like a ‘73 to me. If the door tag is still there on the driver’s jamb and has a month and year of manufacture you will know for sure. If it has like you said a manufacture date of 1972 this is most likely a Model year ‘73. Saw the D jet injection on the engine and steel chrome bumpers all points to ‘73. Be careful, looks like alot of cancer in this one.

Bill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Pepperbilly
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 452
Location: Seattle, Wa
Pepperbilly is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

Walter,

This baby looks like a ‘73 to me. If the door tag is still there on the driver’s jamb and has a month and year of manufacture you will know for sure. If it has like you said a manufacture date of 1972 this is most likely a Model year ‘73. Saw the D jet injection on the engine and steel chrome bumpers all points to ‘73. Be careful, looks like alot of cancer in this one.

Bill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NurseryWalt
Samba Member


Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 111
Location: Abbotsford, BC
NurseryWalt is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

Thanks Bill. Sharp eyes. The VIN is 4232022755. Which I believe means 42 = 4 door sedan the third number 3 = 1972 Jul to Dec.

I'm mostly interested in the tops of the fenders where mine had been hit. Yes, the bottom looks a bit eaten up. I need a new front apron and have a huge hole near the spare tire due to brake fluid. Thinking of $1000 and he keeps the engine?

Walter
_________________
'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19439
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

NurseryWalt wrote:
Thanks Bill. Sharp eyes. The VIN is 4232022755. Which I believe means 42 = 4 door sedan the third number 3 = 1972 Jul to Dec.

I'm mostly interested in the tops of the fenders where mine had been hit. Yes, the bottom looks a bit eaten up. I need a new front apron and have a huge hole near the spare tire due to brake fluid. Thinking of $1000 and he keeps the engine?

Walter


Thats not bad. Does he keep the engine with all the stuff on it? What about transmission?

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NurseryWalt
Samba Member


Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 111
Location: Abbotsford, BC
NurseryWalt is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

Just made the deal today. $1000 CAD (~$800 USD) and he keeps the engine. No talk about the transmission, so I'm assuming I get everything else. Will pickup up the car next Saturday. About a 2.5 hour drive, so not too far. My restorer thought the rear engine lid looked way better than what we have. Hoping this will get the restoration going in top gear. October 10 was the 1 year anniversary and we haven't even media blasted. Oh well, my bug took 3.5 years to complete. Thanks for everyone's input. Glad it actually is the 1973 model.

Walter
_________________
'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwfye
Samba Member


Joined: April 15, 2000
Posts: 7180

vwfye is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

74 had aluminum bumper and was L Jet, wasn't 73 a different EFI?
_________________
64 No'back Speedster
65 Sunroof Notchback
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19439
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

vwfye wrote:
74 had aluminum bumper and was L Jet, wasn't 73 a different EFI?


Yes. I noted the bumper difference mainly when I commented about the mount and different front lower valance....however its good that you mention that the bumpers themselves are VERY different. Larger, aluminum and 5mph crash shocks.

Yep....1974-75 were L-jet....earlier were D-jet. While I think both can bolt to the same stanchion work inside the engine compartment......the trunking and air cleaner for 1974 with L-jet were a lot different. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ubercrap
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 992
Location: Ridley Park, PA
ubercrap is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

'74 2dr. fastback or "coupe" if you like, w/4 speed manual trans. still had 1.7 D-Jet. All other USA had 1.8 L-Jet. I think some other markets got dual carbs w/ 1.8 on later in the Type 4 run...
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Lars S
Samba Member


Joined: October 04, 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Sweden
Lars S is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

ubercrap wrote:
'74 2dr. fastback or "coupe" if you like, w/4 speed manual trans. still had 1.7 D-Jet. All other USA had 1.8 L-Jet. I think some other markets got dual carbs w/ 1.8 on later in the Type 4 run...


Yes, in europe the 74 were all 1.8 and had dual carbs the L-jet was never used here on the 412.
Also there was no model year 75 in europe (I believe the 75 was only an overrun from 74 in the US).


/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ubercrap
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 992
Location: Ridley Park, PA
ubercrap is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

Not sure if any were sold as actual '75s in the USA, I wasn't alive, but I have seen some Haynes manuals for sale, IIRC, in the UK listing through '75 so it seems at least logical that the UK had a formal '75 year. I don't know if I've seen any represented as '75s for sale here. I think formal year assignment varied in different places and past times, so comparison of older vehicles can be difficult.
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwfye
Samba Member


Joined: April 15, 2000
Posts: 7180

vwfye is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

Wasn't 75 the first year of the Dasher? The Dasher was the replacement for the 412. I remember that first water-cooled VW hitting the dealership right across the highway from our house. It was WEIRD!
_________________
64 No'back Speedster
65 Sunroof Notchback
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19439
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

From everything I have seen....the few that are classified as 1975....are either import or just misused nomenclature.

The Dasher...also known as the Passat B-1...started in Europe in 1973. The Dasher in North America was produced for and during (quoting wiki there...but it fits what I have seen)....the 1974 model year. This means that they started production for North American sales BEFORE August of 1974.

The problem is....that they may not have reached dealers before August and may not have been available for sale until August or later...and hence may have been "described" as 1975 cars even though they were technically ....1974 models by production.

This same thing has happened to a lot of VW's and other cars back in the day. In too many places....imported NEW cars are listed on paperwork for the year they are received at the dock. This is why so many cars have conflicting birth certificates.

If the vehicles spent any excessive time sitting around in Germany before shipping or were delayed for a long period....you could see a 1972 car being shipped in 1973....and being called a 1973 on its shipping and DOT/DMV documents.

I "think" this is partly what happened on the 412's. Most documents I can find say that production ceased in July of 1974. But if deliveries from shipping delayed stock and sale continued....a lot of texts could construe that as 1975.

This is really good history of the "411/412" project.

http://www.rastall.com/412/412vw-ea240.html

If you scroll down it states that some 51 specially made variants/wagons were made during March of the 1975 model year. I have no idea what those were.

While you are in that article...click on the blue links....like the "ESVW-1"....a high performance safety vehicles with 100hp rear engines, all kinds of safety restraint and bulkheads and antilock brakes. Looks oddly like a cross between Dasher/Quantum and Peugeot 505.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 29901
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

On top of those reasons, between taxation differences between new/used cars, and the tightening US emission laws in the early/mid-'70s, there were real financial incentives to play games with the model year chosen, if given the option.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Lars S
Samba Member


Joined: October 04, 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Sweden
Lars S is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:

......
If you scroll down it states that some 51 specially made variants/wagons were made during March of the 1975 model year. I have no idea what those were.

.......

Ray


I have tried to find info on theese 51 cars but no big sucess... sources say they were price reduced autostick cars. From memory I have read they all were red...they may have had some extras but I dont remember...

Maybe someone in this forum have any info on them?

///Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 19439
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between 1973 and 1974 412 Reply with quote

On one hand.....I HAVE seen....looked at.....a 1975 412. It was for sale in Atlanta back in the early 90s. At least......thats what the title and registration said it was.

Oddly......if dim memory serves.....it was one of the questions both the seller and myself had.....because the VIN #......and the door tag......noted it as mid 1974-ish.

It had too much wrong with it and I had no place to put it and be wanted too much for my budget. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> 411/412 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB