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Loopole
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Joined: October 20, 2003
Posts: 558
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sammyphsyco
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 1093
Location: Terry Cloyd's neighbor
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 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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sounds like a good idea if you add a sump , oil cooler with a thermostat, and full flow. Lots of diesel engines have these, and suzuki had it on their oil cooled generation of gsxr's. It's probably over kill for a stock motor though.
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| sammyphsyco wrote: |
| Your just jealous the voices are talking to me |
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nsracing
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9737
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject: tiny holes... |
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Wow! $160 bucks for 4 little tiny hole squirters?  Hmmmn....
The squirters are nice. Porsche has them ...Nissan ZX cars have them and few more.
Nothing is too good for the VW. Why not.
I put them myself in my personal engines and few race engines I work on.
The angle of the hole is critical. Like a rifle shot, it has a trajectory. I put mine higher and a few degrees elevation, so it will aim at highest point and hit slightly above the piston pin.
Everybody has their idea of doing things. Pick and choose which one you are most comfortable with.
Peace. |
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Brad M
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Belmont NC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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One quick question for nsracing or anyone else who may know but the squirters just appear to be carefully placed holes drilled into an oil galley.
Is this all that it is, and if so is it a modification that anyone can do? The con appears to my unknowing eye that it takes away oil from the main bearings.
$160 seems steep for a few holes but since they know how to do it and I don't I guess they can charge whatever they want until the secret gets out....
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Brad
61 Double Cab (Sold 8/7/10)
74 Standard Beetle |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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The oil is not really taken away from the bearings. The 911 squirters only work above 45 PSI oil pressure, below that they do not function.
This mod helps to cool the backs of the pistons to keep them happier- i do it to most of my Super Hero engines and all my E and F production SCCA engines for Road race applications.
160 bucks is dirt cheap for this, the mods are a pain in the ass to do correctly and the 911 squirters are 75 bucks alone..
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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nsracing
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9737
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:20 am Post subject: be careful.... |
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Be careful man... It can be done by hand but be very careful...preferably with a nice jig built for it. Pass the tiny drill in there and take tiny cuts...tiny cuts. All you are doing is tapping the main. Try to aim the drill so you end up in the middle of the main bearing saddles. If you do not hit the center, fine too. You can always do an endmill cut to "spread" the pick up side of the squirts.
The size of the drill should be considered. It is tiny so it can break very easily.
It is best done in a milling machine with a sensitive drill chuck..clutch feed and all.
It can even be machined so the spray is wider!!!  It is just an endmill trickery. 
Good luck. |
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gears
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Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4411
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Brad M
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Belmont NC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone that answers my questions. And $160 does sound like a bargain if the squirters are $75 and the precision that is involved with installing them correctly. This picture also enlighten me because the previous one looked like it was just tiny holes drilled in the case. It is not a home project, better left for the pros or junk cases to practice on first.
Thanks again,
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Brad
61 Double Cab (Sold 8/7/10)
74 Standard Beetle |
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gerg
a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 5454
Location: Monroe, LA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Cool ass idea - wish I would have thought of that when my case was in the machine shop. 
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Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| gblakeney wrote: |
| Cool ass idea - wish I would have thought of that when my case was in the machine shop. |
This work is beyond most general machine shops to do correctly...
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Marty Staggs
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2003
Posts: 357
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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This is NOT the proper way to do this mod
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Marty Staggs
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2003
Posts: 357
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad M wrote: |
Thanks again, |
This IS the proper way. They have the Porsche "check valves" or squirters installed. As Jake said, they only work above 45 PSI. You dont want to "releive" your main bearing pressure at low rpm and pressure. If you are at 10 - 15 at hot idle, additional holes will only hurt.
Only at the upper RPM's will there be enough oil pressure to reach the pistons anyways.
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gerg
a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 5454
Location: Monroe, LA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake Raby wrote: |
| gblakeney wrote: |
| Cool ass idea - wish I would have thought of that when my case was in the machine shop. |
This work is beyond most general machine shops to do correctly... |
I spent Monday down in Santa Ana , primarily running around while waiting on RIMCO to do my work. Greg was very cool in getting it out same day. I had no idea of this mod or even if they offer it.
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Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
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Marty Staggs
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2003
Posts: 357
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I think Greg WILL do it if you ask.
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gerg
a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 5454
Location: Monroe, LA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:05 am Post subject: |
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So is it more of an insurance policy? I am building a 2276, running 8.0 CR - Hopefully it will run cooler than higher CR engines or huffers.
At what horsepower or higher would this be needed / highly recomended?
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Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17560
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Anyone know at what pressure does the stock pressure relief valve dump excess pressure to the sump? I think it is below 45psi, rendering the squirters useless. |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| Anyone know at what pressure does the stock pressure relief valve dump excess pressure to the sump? I think it is below 45psi, rendering the squirters useless. |
The 1970 "Technical Improvements" booklet says 28 psi (!)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/dlt_1970techimprovements/page6.jpg
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17560
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, you've just saved a bunch of people a whole bunch of money! |
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slowtwitch
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2004
Posts: 730
Location: just north of philly
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Would v notching the rods preform the same function???
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Bones 53
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 661
Location: Reno NV
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| If one was using the oil bypass system Jack S sells where the pressure relief valve(s) are plugged would that allow the squirters to be useful? |
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