Swing axle leaking trans oil at the wheel

jmmj

Hi all,

I've been battling with this leak... i replaced the rear wheel bearing and put on a new kit (2 o rings, 2 gaskets, washer, seal etc). But it leaked profusely!

And the transmission was running on empty when i bought it so i think the problem already existed.

So i took it all off (not the bearing) and thought i had found the problem... but it still leaks.

Doing a bit of research, this link covered the topic pretty well:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...e+oil+leak

But i have three questions:

1. Why does this kit come with two gaskets? None of my manuals show the use of two gaskets, is one used behind the backing plate??

2. is it correct that the large o-ring sits in contact with the gasket (o-ring behind the gasket). Or are my gaskets oversized?

3. My original and new thrust washers are not flat like all the kits i've seen (the washer between the bearing and little o-ring). It has a taper at the bottom and at the top, but its not clear which way it faces. Anyone used one of these?!?!

Thanks for looking... any help would be appreciated.

Mike & Pri

sidewalk bob · Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject:

Let me see if I can reconstruct it...

Okay, you are looking at the bearing which is pressed in, right???

Two O-rings... One large that goes in the housing and the other (small) on the axle shaft... The you have a thrust washer, grease seal in the housing and a paper gasket...

Is that what you have???

Sidewalk Bob

andk5591

jmmj · Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject:

jmmj

andk5591 · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:22 am Post subject:

You talking about the spacer that rides between the bearing seal and the axle? What is it - like an inch long and about a 1 1/2" diameter? Dont know the answer, but are there different sizes of the spacer? Or is your chewed up? I always check the bevel to make sure that ther are no gouges on it and if need be, I sand them out.

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sidewalk bob · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:07 am Post subject:

BTW, exactly where are you seeing the oil??? Backing plate??? Axle itself???

S.B.

drscope · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:19 am Post subject:

Part #10 in andk5591's picture is normally the cause. They get grooves worn in them with time and that is what the lip of the seal rides on. If its worn, the lip can't seal.

The small o-ring slips on te axle and the champher in that spacer goes against the o-ring.
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jmmj · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:27 am Post subject:

jmmj · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:28 am Post subject:

jmmj · Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:31 am Post subject:

McGuirk · Samba Member Joined: October 14, 2004 Posts: 114

The second gasket is for use in buses. The washer should be flat. The first time I tried to replace my seal it leaked again...when I took it apart, I found that the washer had warped and developed a lip on the inner edge, cutting the small o-ring. Then I read some threads where Bill May suggested not using the washer because the new ones in today's kits are too thin and get deformed. I left it out and so far haven't had a leak.

drs1023 · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:58 am Post subject:

This leak was a pain to me also. On the driver side, I tore it down 3 times to get it right and stop the leak. Passenger side went a lot smoother after I made all the mistakes on the other side.

jmmj · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:38 am Post subject:

Well i took it all off again. This time was interesting because i didn't jack the side up enough to stop what trans oil was remaining from coming out... so i took off the hub and watched the oil run out of the bearing which got me thinking holistically... not just about the two o-rings.

Luckily i'm stingy and had still had the original seal so i made a comparison. The new seal felt looser, but the old one had a little tear.... so i added the 'springy circular band' to the new seal and the feel was comparable to the original seal.

Despite this i still think that weird washer is to blame!!! So i took McGuirk's advice (cheers bro!) and simply left off the washer, which had in fact deformed a little....

I also looked closely at the surfaces and ran them over some wet and dry on our marble table just as a precaution.

So its all back together with new oil in the transmission and its NOT LEAKING!!!!

Thanks everybody.

I had a moment where my heart jumped out of my mouth... i was tapping off the outer spacer which meets the little oring and out slid the axle. I have already had the fulcrum plates slide in behind the axle when i first replaced the rear bearing. This is not a procedure your worst enemy deserves!! Thankfully it slid back in without problems - you know you have problems when your bearing won't seat in the housing (sticks out too far) and the bearing housing wont go on.

Be aware not to pull on the axle!!

thanks again
-Mike

sidewalk bob · Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject:

Very cool!!!

The drip at the weep hole said that there was one too many parts (or a bent washer) that didn't allow the torquing to tighten everything up...

Congrats...

S.B.

Tbirdusa · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject:

My turn to fight this hard awful design. Last year I put disc brakes on the back in the late fall. It's a strictly summer car and so it got park. After a mere week, there was the dreaded pool of stench oil. CHIT !!

Finally some nice weather in the Midwest so today it came apart. I have all of 30 miles on these disc brakes.

After fighting the chamfered collar off, the small,rubbe o ring over the axle is dang near brittle and scalded. It got hot. The thin metal spacer against the bearing had the inner lip curled in towards the bearing and rubber burned onto it.

This makes no sense to me that there is pressure / torque at the inner lip of this flimsy piece of metal. It's as if the o ring pushed it in, guess it DID push it in.

In my setup, you don't see the balls in the race of the bearing. Looks like a very hard plastic covering the balls of the bearing. Guessing that is done so the metal shim is not required? This car was so heavily modified by the previous owner that nothing is what it seems,"........... Ever. It had type 3 drums on the back and I went to discs.

Should I just lose the metal washer thing?
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EVfun · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject:

The brake picture shown is 1965-1967. What year do you have?

I have 1964 brakes, everything is different but looks about the same. With the 1958-1964 brakes there is no #13 and #14 is different (you can put the seal #12 in from the front.) I know this is wrong, but I've had good luck leaving #7 out (and #11 because I don't have the weep hole with the older design.)
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61SNRF · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject:

It's not unusual to see the washer #7 deformed when you take it apart, one big reason the kit's come with them.

Cheaper kits can have cheaper washers that deform more than usual, and can have o-rings of poor quality, either that or the kit has been on a shelf for years/decades so the rubber can get hardened before you even put them in.

Your description of a plastic shield matches that of a "sealed" bearing, as in self contained with lifetime lubrication. These are a direct bolt in, and are often used when the rear axles are de-cambered to the extreme.

The disc brake kit should be engineered to accommodate the use of all the stock parts, so I'd say yes, use a new washer #7 in your re-work.
Never installed any rear disc brake kits myself, but having seen pictures I would think you want to make sure that the disc brake adapter plate that replaces the backing plate is exactly the same thickness as a VW backing plate, otherwise that could upset the tight, leak free fit of all the parts.
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Tbirdusa · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject:

The thickness of the mount I thought might be a point of failure. Sealed bearing it appears to be.

Maybe I pinched the seal with the coil spring.... I will attack tomorrow and see what I come up with. Thanks for help.
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jmmj · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject:

Hey Tbirdusa,

I still have problems with this....

But some have reported success without the #7 washer all together - the aftermarket replacement washer is often too thin.

Did you put some oil or grease on the o rings and seal as you put it all together?

My drums have play between the shaft splines and the inner drum ( i havent ever found the wear limit info but i know its too much). One guy said that this was the reason his axle leaked. I put new drums on but its the shafts i need to swap out.

Also have you torqued the axle nuts?

Good luck!

-mike
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Swing axle leaking trans oil at the wheel
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