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vwsb74
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
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 Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: 48ida air/idle mixture |
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Hi, how do I set the air mixture on 48idas is the same with idf? I'm new to Ida carbs  |
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jfats808
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Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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All dual carbs are same in respect to tuning procedures. Increase idle, individually close then open AF mixture screws, then readjust idle to suit.
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2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD
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Doug Berg
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Location: Fallon NV.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure if I'm fully clear on the question??? On IDA's the idle jet has a main and the holder is the air,,, like stock 120 air idle holder or 100 or 60,,, I think 80 is available also or just get 60's & drill them to desired size Doug... |
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vwsb74
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to know they are similar. I will change my 70 idle with 60/-120 holder hope this works okay with third progression holes. Thanks
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74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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jfats808
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Joined: December 10, 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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B74,
For comparison, I am running 44mm valves and current jetting is 60/125 165/200. Darn stamped 120 turned out to be a 125.
On the data logger and afr, I read perfect in all the ranges but like 1. In low gear under 2.5k rpm sustained 2nd gear. I lean out to 18afr unless I accelerate and shift to 3rd . Its annoying like hell! I ordered a 110 idle air jet and am going to test then open it up in steps till I achieve semi perfection.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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vwsb74
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jfats808 wrote: |
B74,
For comparison, I am running 44mm valves and current jetting is 60/125 165/200. Darn stamped 120 turned out to be a 125.
On the data logger and afr, I read perfect in all the ranges but like 1. In low gear under 2.5k rpm sustained 2nd gear. I lean out to 18afr unless I accelerate and shift to 3rd . Its annoying like hell! I ordered a 110 idle air jet and am going to test then open it up in steps till I achieve semi perfection. |
That sucks! I want to change all my jets/air with genuine weber soon. Mine right now are empi and I don't trust them! I wish I have a gauge tool to confirm the size not relying only what is stamped.
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17634
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Doug Berg wrote: |
| Not sure if I'm fully clear on the question??? On IDA's the idle jet has a main and the holder is the air,,, like stock 120 air idle holder or 100 or 60,,, I think 80 is available also or just get 60's & drill them to desired size Doug... |
I remember a conversation at least 15 years ago about this topic. You said that the idle jet holder is like the air correction jet of the idle cct. So if you had a lean transition at the top end of the idle cct, going smaller on the idle jet holder will richen the mixture.
I think the ideal idle jet holder for a VW should have a 1.1mm hole. I tried 100s once and the engine would start to load up at around 3000 rpm and misfire because it was so rich.
Another way to richen the top end of the progression is to increase the size of the third (top) progression hole. Think about how Dellorto did progression holes in the DRLAs.
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Doug Berg
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Joined: March 18, 2015
Posts: 137
Location: Fallon NV.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Hi Bruce,,, yes it was about 15 yrs ago... I don't think you can say 1 size fit's all,,, Kinda like saying 130 main is optimal for all engine's,,, All engine's are different w/ different characteristics,,, A lot depends on head flow,,, cam size,,, exhaust size,,,choke size & so on!!!! "A lot" of my tuning is w/ heads that really really flow,,, "Clyde head's",,,w/ bigger cam's & exhaust's,,, I like the 100 holder!!! That's where the art of finding what each engine likes best !!! Doug... |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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With IDFs you make idle jet changes in increments of 2.5. With IDA's the fuel jets are increments of 5, which is normally too drastic of a change. But with the changeable idle air jets, you can really zero in on what the engine wants. Bigger idle-air = leaner, since it's pulling on the idle-fuel a little softer with a bigger idle-air. Think of overall area, and what % the idle-fuel is when making your change.
So, lets say I have a 65 idle fuel and 120 idle air, and it's too rich. 60 idle fuel makes it too lean. No problem, try a 65/130, OR maybe a 60/110 or 60/100.
If you go way down on the idle air, you will have a stronger pull on the idle-fuel, so will normally have to go down on that also. Generally the bigger the combo is, the later it will continue to "work" via the progression holes.
Figure out what works.
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vwsb74
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Joined: July 30, 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
With IDFs you make idle jet changes in increments of 2.5. With IDA's the fuel jets are increments of 5, which is normally too drastic of a change. But with the changeable idle air jets, you can really zero in on what the engine wants. Bigger idle-air = leaner, since it's pulling on the idle-fuel a little softer with a bigger idle-air. Think of overall area, and what % the idle-fuel is when making your change.
So, lets say I have a 65 idle fuel and 120 idle air, and it's too rich. 60 idle fuel makes it too lean. No problem, try a 65/130, OR maybe a 60/110 or 60/100.
If you go way down on the idle air, you will have a stronger pull on the idle-fuel, so will normally have to go down on that also. Generally the bigger the combo is, the later it will continue to "work" via the progression holes.
Figure out what works. |
How many turn/s on the air mixture screw you can say acceptable?
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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Doug Berg
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Joined: March 18, 2015
Posts: 137
Location: Fallon NV.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| You turn the screw "in" "slowly" till the engine goes to die,,, the denser the jetting the closer to the stumble!!! If your @ 55/120 it could be 1 full turn out from the stumble,,, If your @ 65/100 it'll be more like 1/2 to 3/4 turns out from the stumble ... the closer the mixture screw is to the stumble,,, the more mixture goes to the progression circuit!!! and less goes under the butterfly!!! Doug... |
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vwsb74
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Joined: July 30, 2009
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Location: socal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Doug Berg wrote: |
| You turn the screw "in" "slowly" till the engine goes to die,,, the denser the jetting the closer to the stumble!!! If your @ 55/120 it could be 1 full turn out from the stumble,,, If your @ 65/100 it'll be more like 1/2 to 3/4 turns out from the stumble ... the closer the mixture screw is to the stumble,,, the more mixture goes to the progression circuit!!! and less goes under the butterfly!!! Doug... |
Thanks for a very detail explanation. Right now I have 70/120 idle/ f11/ 155mains/190airs/37vents. I think the rest jetting is very close but only the idle combo is too rich. Before buying the idle jet/holder combo what do you think is good starting point?Engine is 2180cc. At sea level.Thanks
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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jfats808
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Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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B74,
Why not start with a 55/120 combo? I also Think you should go to a 200 air. Might allow a down step to 150, gaining mpg and no power sacrifice= cash saved on gas. But that's just my personal opinion. Test and report back.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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vwsb74
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jfats808 wrote: |
B74,
Why not start with a 55/120 combo? I also Think you should go to a 200 air. Might allow a down step to 150, gaining mpg and no power sacrifice= cash saved on gas. But that's just my personal opinion. Test and report back. |
Okay I will start 55/120 . Other question what is the size for the fuel line? My old idf fuel line is too small for the ida
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢
Last edited by vwsb74 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Berg
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Joined: March 18, 2015
Posts: 137
Location: Fallon NV.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Depend's on if it's mechanical or electric fuel pump!!! A mechanical fuel pump is variable speed,,,, when the engine is idling so is the fuel pump,,, when the engine is at 8000 rpms so is the fuel pump!!! Electric pump's are one constant speed & flow!!! On my Buggy I used stock type 4 fuel lines (1 size bigger than type 1) And a stock fuel pump ,,, And it ran 10.70's @ 121 mph!!! (1/4 mile) Without any fuel issues Doug... |
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vwsb74
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Joined: July 30, 2009
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Location: socal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Doug Berg wrote: |
| Depend's on if it's mechanical or electric fuel pump!!! A mechanical fuel pump is variable speed,,,, when the engine is idling so is the fuel pump,,, when the engine is at 8000 rpms so is the fuel pump!!! Electric pump's are one constant speed & flow!!! On my Buggy I used stock type 4 fuel lines (1 size bigger than type 1) And a stock fuel pump ,,, And it ran 10.70's @ 121 mph!!! (1/4 mile) Without any fuel issues Doug... |
Mine is mechanical . I'm talking about the inlet size. I think I have 7mm line on my idf but too small for Ida .
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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KROC
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Joined: February 20, 2006
Posts: 364
Location: Vancouver B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Doug! Hope all is Well!
You can get Idle Jets in increments of 1 from here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WEBER-IDA-IDLE-JETS-F10-SERIES-/290328306085?hash=item4398ea61a5&vxp=mtr
My Current 2332 combo has 42 vents. 60/110 F4 with 170 air 155 main
(Im really liking the F4's in this combo)
Darn near perfect in all driving conditions and RPM's except if I lug it a bit in say 3rd gear like slowing for a corner it will go rich for a split second as I roll out of the corner ( its right around 2800 rpm). I tried a 115 holder with the 60 Idle and it goes way too lean. Might try a 59 or 58 idle and see how that responds.
Stay cool over there in Reno!
Darren, |
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Doug Berg
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Joined: March 18, 2015
Posts: 137
Location: Fallon NV.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey Darren,,, How's the "Great White North",,,, Only mid 90's today,,, Had to change the pump on the well today (The dyno was running out of water) Ratto's all over that F-4 also,,, He says same thing's your saying !!! I haven't tried it yet,,, (can you fiddle w/ the timing to fine tune A/F???) I don't wanna jack this guy's post,,, Hopefully see you in Sac again soon !!! Doug.... I'll send you a P.M. .... I got some "Really cool" stuff in the work's!!!! |
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Doug Berg
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Posts: 137
Location: Fallon NV.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| vwsb74,,, In your post I don't see mention of the choke size??? It's possible that your choke is too small,,, not letting enough air to the cylinder and too much vacuum signal on the fuel port's,,, (valve size & exhaust size) play a big part here also!!! Your jet combo might be perfect for a 42 choke??? The bigger the choke,,, the more it move's the "powerband" up!!! I'll see if I can get the shop in cali. to post pic's of some new option's we have !!!! Doug... |
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vwsb74
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Location: socal
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Doug Berg wrote: |
| vwsb74,,, In your post I don't see mention of the choke size??? It's possible that your choke is too small,,, not letting enough air to the cylinder and too much vacuum signal on the fuel port's,,, (valve size & exhaust size) play a big part here also!!! Your jet combo might be perfect for a 42 choke??? The bigger the choke,,, the more it move's the "powerband" up!!! I'll see if I can get the shop in cali. to post pic's of some new option's we have !!!! Doug... |
Sorry to confused you . What I mean is the banjo fitting on Ida is too big . I ended buying 12mm-6mm banjo fittings. My combo is 70/120idles/155/190 37 vents
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74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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