| Author |
Message |
slowfiveo
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Elizabethtown, KY
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
 |
|
Hi guys!
My 82 AC Vanagon w/FI has recently developed an issue after starting. When I turn the key I have no issue getting it to fire up, but it will die within seconds. I can feather foot the gas for about 10 seconds and get it to run, but the idle goes up and down for a few minutes until the engine warms. Once its warmed up all is well.
I did a little research prior and read a post about the AAR. I did the freezer test and heated it up, it opens and closes as it should. My fuel system was recently checked while chasing another issue about a month or so ago (fuel pressure, volume, pressure regulator, injectors, etc.). I also replaced my fuel pump and filter along with all fuel lines. Everything has been good since that installation for a month or so, until now. I took some starting fluid and sprayed over the visible vacuum lines and got no increase in RPMs. So, I would assume I'm not experiencing a vacuum leak.
Thankfully, this issue hasn't kept me from getting to work, though this my daily driver and I cant help but to think this is a sign of things to come.
Any experience with this issue? Thanks in advance! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 4555
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
While my first thought is a vacuum leak, you seem to have covered that with the starting fluid test. So, how old are the injectors? If you have a wonky spray pattern when one of them or several of them are Cold, you won't have a steady running engine. Carbon build up on the back of the Intake Valves will also affect your cold engine driveability.
So, try this, as it's cheap and usually very effective. Chevron Techron Fuel System cleaner. There seem to be several versions of this product out there , to satisfy local Clean Air Law regs, so research it here on Samba, as someone posted the version that works the best, and the other, watered down versions; for sale in Calif or other locations that is not at strong or effective in removing deposits.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pathao
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2012
Posts: 335
Location: Montreal, Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:06 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
T2 sender, try unplunging it
_________________
1982 AC P27 - 2.0 FI FED - 091 - BA6
English is a second language to me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slowfiveo
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Elizabethtown, KY
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:45 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
| jlrftype7 wrote: |
While my first thought is a vacuum leak, you seem to have covered that with the starting fluid test. So, how old are the injectors? If you have a wonky spray pattern when one of them or several of them are Cold, you won't have a steady running engine. Carbon build up on the back of the Intake Valves will also affect your cold engine driveability.
So, try this, as it's cheap and usually very effective. Chevron Techron Fuel System cleaner. There seem to be several versions of this product out there , to satisfy local Clean Air Law regs, so research it here on Samba, as someone posted the version that works the best, and the other, watered down versions; for sale in Calif or other locations that is not at strong or effective in removing deposits. |
My injectors are very old. However I did test them extensively a little over a month ago and they sprayed in a cone shape like they should. I will definitely try the fuel cleaner. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slowfiveo
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Elizabethtown, KY
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:46 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
| pathao wrote: |
| T2 sender, try unplunging it |
Is this the sensor that controls the cold start valve? Thermo-time switch? What would I learn from unplugging it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 4555
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
| slowfiveo wrote: |
| pathao wrote: |
| T2 sender, try unplunging it |
Is this the sensor that controls the cold start valve? Thermo-time switch? What would I learn from unplugging it? |
engine temp sensor, on the water cooled engines it would be checking Coolant Temp, but on yours, engine temp with no coolant due to Air Cooled Engine...
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 4555
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:12 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
| slowfiveo wrote: |
| jlrftype7 wrote: |
While my first thought is a vacuum leak, you seem to have covered that with the starting fluid test. So, how old are the injectors? If you have a wonky spray pattern when one of them or several of them are Cold, you won't have a steady running engine. Carbon build up on the back of the Intake Valves will also affect your cold engine driveability.
So, try this, as it's cheap and usually very effective. Chevron Techron Fuel System cleaner. There seem to be several versions of this product out there , to satisfy local Clean Air Law regs, so research it here on Samba, as someone posted the version that works the best, and the other, watered down versions; for sale in Calif or other locations that is not at strong or effective in removing deposits. |
My injectors are very old. However I did test them extensively a little over a month ago and they sprayed in a cone shape like they should. I will definitely try the fuel cleaner. |
Intake Valve deposits are like spraying Lighter fluid onto Charcoal in a grill, the carbon on the valves just soaks up your injector spray, upsetting the fuel mixture needed for a Cold engine since it needs to run a bit rich until it warms up. That soaking of the gas leans out the mixture in a given cyl. when it's happening from carbon build up.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slowfiveo
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Elizabethtown, KY
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
| jlrftype7 wrote: |
| Intake Valve deposits are like spraying Lighter fluid onto Charcoal in a grill, the carbon on the valves just soaks up your injector spray, upsetting the fuel mixture needed for a Cold engine since it needs to run a bit rich until it warms up. That soaking of the gas leans out the mixture in a given cyl. when it's happening from carbon build up. |
I found the fuel system cleaner and gave it a whirl. I drove it for a couple hours today and I haven't seen a change yet. However, I've only burned through about a half of a tank since I gassed up after adding the cleaner in. Will this require more driving to see results or should I look to other areas as the potential issue? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 4555
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
Slow process if there are large deposits on the intake valves. Could take several treatments.
After running two bottles, change your oil and filter just to be safe since the chemicals attack oil if left in your oil too long.
Be patient, it took a while to get these deposits built up, takes time to safely remove them .
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scottn59c
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 309
Location: Northern CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
Hey slowfiveo,
You are in luck, as I chased my tail for a long time with the same symptoms before I figured out how to cure this ailment.
A lot of well meaning folks on Samba will tell you that this sounds like a vacuum leak, but it's not; It's a peculiarity of the aging air-cooled motor getting too hot at the startup cycle.
What you need is a spacer on the engine temp sensor so that the engine doesn't get too hot at startup and cut out. See this link (https://ratwell.com/technical/TempSensorII.html) for a very comprehensive article that explains your ailment and shows the solution (temp sensor spacer).
You could fab your own spacer or purchase one. I got one about six months ago on ebay from a Porsche parts seller.
_________________
Farfignewton! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52330
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:14 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
| Scottn59c wrote: |
Hey slowfiveo,
You are in luck, as I chased my tail for a long time with the same symptoms before I figured out how to cure this ailment.
A lot of well meaning folks on Samba will tell you that this sounds like a vacuum leak, but it's not; It's a peculiarity of the aging air-cooled motor getting too hot at the startup cycle.
What you need is a spacer on the engine temp sensor so that the engine doesn't get too hot at startup and cut out. See this link (https://ratwell.com/technical/TempSensorII.html) for a very comprehensive article that explains your ailment and shows the solution (temp sensor spacer).
You could fab your own spacer or purchase one. I got one about six months ago on ebay from a Porsche parts seller. |
The spacer was sold for use in Type 4 engine with the early TSII location and shouldn't be needed on engine with the sensor in the later location unless there is some other problem causing the engine to run too lean. Slow heating of the sensor caused a lot of people to end up needing a tow when they drove up to ski areas or other high elevation locations and adding the spacer on newer engine would only make this problem worse, so the spacer should only be added as a last resort.
If he removes the wire from the sensor and doesn't ground it out that should cause a full rich condition, while grounding the wire out should cause a lean condition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scottn59c
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 309
Location: Northern CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:20 am Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled Vanagon Idle after start issue |
|
|
Wildthings, the spacer worked for me on my '81. I had the exact same symptoms and cured them permanently. I have not had anymore idle issues or any related troubles in about a year. Check out Ratwell's page in the link I included above.
This is a very frequent issue for Type II buses and early AC Vanagons. It's at the very least worth the $20 for the spacer before throwing more money at changing parts that don't need to be changed.
Just trying to help here.
_________________
Farfignewton! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
