swingaxle tube end play

[bugfil]

I had my 61' tunnel transmission rebuilt to stock specs. at Rancho Transaxles but only sent the trans. without the axles installed as I'm in Lincoln, NE and shipping is so expensive for the full transaxle. I'm in the process of shimming the axle tube which I have done on other VWs before including this one. The problem is when I lift the axle towards the top of the flange with gaskets installed it binds a lot. The bell, the daisy, the flange and the transmission where the daisy sits have all been lubed with trans. oil. I have torqued the flange nuts to 14 ft. lbs.
I've already added 5 gaskets to the passenger side and it still binds a lot. It will barely move even when I push hard with my weight behind it up or down when the axle is closer to the top but moves freely at halfway down or below. I've used a feeler gauge between the flange and the bell on the axle and I can fit .008+(which the Bentley manual says is the limit) in the lower half but can't even fit .002 in the upper half. What am I doing wrong?
I'm trying to do this with the axles still removed so I can add and subtract gaskets without having to pull bearings to disassemble. The trans. is sitting loose on some blocks on the floor. I'm using a bug Bentley manual because I don't have the bus manual.

[Eric&Barb]

Would guess the plastic daisy is worn, get another to try there. Also would look over the inner side of the bell shaped axle tube to see if there is uneven wear. Could be someone bent that up somewhere storing a heavy object on it. Could make a gauge out of sheet metal to test for that....
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[bugfil]

Thanks for the reply, I hadn't thought about the daisy being worn, I thought if it was worn I'd have more space rather than less but if it's worn more on one side than the other that could be causing the binding. I will mic the "petals" of the daisy tomorrow to see if there are different dimensions around the circumference of the daisy.
Today I sanded the the inside of the flange with 800 grit and filed then sanded the bell with 800 grit too as both had fairly deep gouges in them. I also lightly wet sanded the daisy with 800 to remove the scratches in the surface. None of that made a difference in the fit. I have installed the flange in different orientations to see if that made a difference as well, it didn't make any difference either.
What sort of gauge are you referring to making for measuring the straightness of the bell? I would be interested in checking that dimension.

[Eric&Barb]

[Eric&Barb]

You could also see by switching axle and daisy parts from one side to the other to find which is causing the problem.

Could also be the axle retainers are bent or twisted a bit.
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[BonTonRoulet]

[bugfil]

Is this what you had in mind? I'm not sure I completely understand your idea.
I will swap the axle and daisies around in different ways to see if that changes the fit.
Thanks again for the ideas

[BonTonRoulet]

Static angle of the axle tubes IF you are running reduction gear boxes. Yes, it would change slightly with the weight of the engine, however, the up and down motion of the axle tube at the transmission is very small vs. the range of motion out at the wheels.

In other words, use this photo as the "sweet spot" of how your axle tubes fit the transmission with regard to relative angle.

Good Luck!

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[Eric&Barb]

[BonTonRoulet]

[Eric&Barb]

[Eric&Barb]

[BonTonRoulet]

[Eric&Barb]

[BarryL]

Did you hammer the retaining rings' bolt holes back to flush with the flat mating surface?

The 6 holes on the outer ring.

[bugfil]

You have all given me good ideas to think about.
Eric and Barb, I swapped the daisies from side to side and the binding is slightly better. almost to the the point where if I had not put a feeler gauge between the flange and the bell I would think it felt close enough. And it may be, but I still can't fit a .002 feeler gauge in the top of either side and can fit .008 on the driver's lower half and .006 on the pass. side lower half with 4 gaskets on either side. I will order new daisies to eliminate that as a possible problem. I haven't swapped the axles yet but will do that tomorrow just to see what happens, Im not sure what I'll do with the information I gain from that experiment though. I'm curious just the same.
BarryL, I did flatten the bolt holes on the flanges the last time I had the trans out a few years ago to fix some leaks but that is worth rechecking more closely.
BonTonRouge, plastigauge might be a quick way to check the fit. You might be right that the suspension probably doesn't compress into the upper 1/4 of the travel very often especially since I'm not off roading this thing like some of the guys I've seen on the internet.
The axle does move freely at level and below.
My super power is overthinking things and I worry that I have too much clearance in the lower half of the bell and no clearance in the upper half.
Does .002 on top and .006 to .008 on the bottom average to .004 overall?
I have rotated all the parts involved to various positions and none of the measurements or binding change with any combination of position changes. I'll keep thinking and welcome any more ideas you may have.

[thom]

One more thing to check: is the end of the axle properly seated in the fulcrum plates?
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-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type

[bugfil]

Thanks for the suggestion Thom, the axles are not installed at this point just empty axle tubes/reduction boxes with lower stub axles installed.

[bugfil]

Here's an update on where I've gotten with the axle shimming and installation.
After looking at, messing with and thinking about the fit and also having the axle tubes on and off 50 times I realized the flange has to be centered perfectly on the transmission; then you get very even measurements all the way around the flange and hemisphere gap. It seems so simply and was the only thing that made much difference in proper fit. It would be very difficult to get the flange lined up perfectly with the trans in the car but with the trans. on it's side and the axle and tube upright it's pretty easy. Snug the flange nuts a little more than hand tight and you can gently tap on the edges of the flange back and forth while checking the hemisphere gap with a feeler gauge. You can get it to where a .002 feeler gauge won't quite slide into the gap all the way around the opening but the axle moves quite freely and no end play!
I bought new plastic daisies and they are slightly thinner than the originals, I ended up with one shim/gasket on the passenger side and two shims on the drivers side. With the old daisies the number was three drivers and 4 passengers. The shim thickness's I used were .012" and on the drivers side .012" and .007".
The shims in the Wolfsburg west transmission seal kit I used had .007" shims and I ordered the .012" shims from M&T manufacturing. I actually ordered the gaskets in two different sizes 0.2mm and 0.3mm but they were all the same size when I got them. Two different colors but the same thickness 0.3mm, which is .012". I'm finally done with the shimming. Next i will install the bearings into the reduction boxes and hopefully get this transaxle put back together.
Thanks Sambanistas for your thoughts, ideas and information. I always find it thought provoking and helpful.

[Eric&Barb]

Thanks so much for the update!! Great you got it all sorted out!!
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