Dansk heater Boxes - Do Not Fit - Check out the latest photos.

[Bug53]

Brand New heater boxes and hardware kits.
Installed while still on the stand.
All set to install my Vintage Speed Muffler and what do you know.
No way are these bent correctly.
The J tubes are bent considerably (7-10 degrees) beyond 180.
Tailpipes dont clear the apron cut outs with this kind of angle.
It amplifies and becomes almost 3/4" by the time you get to the apron.

_________________
Never blame lazy people, they didn't do anything.

[early]

That is disappointing. Should be level under the valve cover. While I did have to cut about 13mm off of the length of tip of exchanger to fit vintage speed exhaust, that doesn't seem to help you in this problem.

My heat exchangers were an older aftermarket Dansk version ( I think) but the fit was factory like.

Mention the brand name if you would so others would know, unless you can get vendor to offer a correction.

Example of my 1835 vintage speed exhaust fit

[Bug53]

Check out the Reply I got from JBugs.

Hello Glen,

That is common place for new heater boxes or J-tubes if they are bolted up solid without the header or muffler in place to align them. 1 degree in the bend can make a big difference in the alignment 18" away.

We loosely install the heater boxes and the muffler so that all 4 exhaust ports and both slip joints are all lined up. Then we go back and tighten the nuts at the heads, then finally we install the clamps. This is common practice whether it be with a stock style muffler, with j-tubes or heater boxes, or a 4-1 merged or baja header system.

Please let us know if we can help you with anything else!

Sam Mebane
JBugs.com

So I guess Im supposed to install the whole exhaust system very loosely then crank the crap out of the exhaust flange nuts until the J pipes take the desired shape. This guy clearly want to just walk away from this problem.
Another one of his employees told me in his eight years of working there I,m the first guy to complain about heater boxes. It’s a complete coincidence I have two that are bent wrong. There must be dozens of customers with the same issue. In the photos you can see how extreme it is.

To add insult to injury he replied to the email accidentally sent without the pictures. The email with photos was sent two minutes later.
Take this into consideration when buying any aftermarket offshore sourced parts from this company. If anything is wrong you will not be taken care of.

This happened a few years back with a stock muffler from CIP1 and all I had to do was email them a picture of the muffler cut up in pieces (destroyed) and they promptly sent me a replacement. Easy Breezy.
_________________
Never blame lazy people, they didn't do anything.

[scrivyscriv]

I’ve personally bought one new jopex/dansk muffler from bus depot ten years ago and the experience installing it was not good. Jbugs guy’s theory is correct, leaving things loose then tightening it all up; but if you do that with as bad of an angle as yours, it puts a lot of pressure on those exhaust studs!

I guess you could heat the 90° bend up pretty hot and see if it would carefully bend to line up better. It would flatten the bend out some but shouldn’t be a big deal.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[clockworkbox]

I bought some narrowed torsion leaves from JBugs and they did not fit, the center divots were about 3/8" off center. I sent pictures with measurements but the rep I dealt with all but insisted it was some error I had made with installation. We went back and forth a few times and eventually he he invoked the name Sam. "Sam said yadda yadda yadda" I have watched enough videos of Sam f**king up to know that he isn't infallible and I said so. Finally I just told the rep that I had spent thousands of dollars at their company and if this wasn't made right I would be done with them. They gave me a refund and didn't want the parts back but I had to work for it. I have bought a lot of parts from them because their pricing is very good and free shipping over $100. They somehow sell TMI for less than TMI does directly. I still use JBugs but I think CIP 1 ships faster and I have never had an issue with their parts. I also like the star quality rating system CIP 1 uses for their parts and I find it to be fairly accurate. Stick to your guns and I think JBugs will make things right for you. Good luck.
_________________
'69 Beetle (pieces)
Learning the hard way is still learning...

[early]

I agree with installing everything loose when fitting exhaust, heat exchangers. I had to do the same to fit my vintage speed as everything has to pull together slowly. But in your situation since they aren't offering a solution, it might take some heat and persuasion.
_________________
early-
Barnfind westy project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
my 73 sports bug project build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497088
Current Projects :
73 Sport Bug - L13M gone now
67 Westfalia
57 oval window ragtop - sold june 2021
61 sedan
68 Corvette Roadster - Small Block, 4 Speed
86 GMC Sierra Classic- 4x4, Shortbed
94 Harley Flstn

[Cusser]

Not what you asked, but JBugs does not manufacture these, they are just a re-seller. Many other vendors would have exactly the same.

However, the law of merchantability states that a product - even if on sale - must be appropriate for the attended use. Send it back for refund, and when more do this, JBugs and other re-sellers will put pressure on their suppliers.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Rob Combs]

Probably not what you're wanting to hear, but I'm not sure I read anything in Jbugs' reply indicating they would not help you. They gave you an avenue to try, even if it seems like a long shot.

And yes, it is frustrating to think of giving it a try when looking at those angles and thinking there's no way this is going to work/bolt up. Feels like a waste of time.

Aftermarket exhaust parts are notorious for being a pain in the ass to fit up. I've personally never had everything fit up properly without at least some persuasion. Some items needed a lot more persuasion than others.

But if you do follow through with their advice, loosening up the heater boxes, then attempting to fit up the muffler, and it's still a mile off, your side of the issue with Jbugs gets a lot stronger - sending them some pics of it actually being a mile off after all of their instructions (or with the nuts still loose) kinda takes away any strength their recommendation had.

Then one would think they would more compelled to arrange a replacement or refund.

If you refuse to even try what has worked for others it will only weaken your side of the issue. Not exactly your fault, but...

For whatever that is worth.

Hope you get it sorted. Good luck.

[Glenn]

JBUGS is a catalog seller. They buy cheap and sell cheap, they get a crate of a specific part and when filling your order, they take the part out of the crate and put it in box and ship it to you.

They don't inspect or do any quality control.

I prefer to buy from CIP since they are a bit better with customer service and returns. I do not buy any engine or parts that require an exact fit.

When it comes to "stock" exhaust parts, yes you have to loosely put it all together before tightening the nuts. The hope is that everything will squeeze/bend together. I suggest putting a layer of high temp RTV on both sides of the exhaust gaskets and the doughnut between the muffler and heater boxes.

I have had the #2 and #4 pipes, of the mufflers, too far apart and used a ratchet strap to bend them closer to get on the studs.

Welcome to the wonderful world of cheap aftermarket crap. This is the legacy of years of cheap VW owners accepting crap.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[Wolfgangdieter]

Some say to return for a refund, but returning heater boxes cross-country is expensive (and most likely at your cost), and the next pair you get could be just as bad! I'm guessing heating it red hot would be answer.
_________________
CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy

[Zundfolge1432]

[Schepp]

Use anti-seize on the slip fit joints so that its easier to take apart again in the future.

[sled]

the "stock" style metal-sandwich gaskets that install at the head suck.

get some of these

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2800.htm


you know what's equally annoying as ill-fitting reproduction parts? People that go on the internet and complain about them not being perfect after purchasing from one of the cheapest retailers.

manufacturing quality used to be a lot higher, but so did peoples problem solving skills and willingness to fix things.
_________________
drive your split.

[Glenn]

[Dusty1]

[Rob Combs]

Not that he needs me to defend him, but let's try not to beat up on the OP too badly.

From his point of view, Jbugs' response probably seemed aloof. That's more than likely because shit like this is completely normal and they just don't have an emotional response to it. Ain't nothin new about it. They just try to coach the customer through getting it to work.

To the people not yet familiar with the concept that nothing on these cars simply drops in and works perfectly like new factory parts (sometimes even those don't), an expectation that shit fits and works is reasonable. They have no factory parts prices to compare cheaply-made and sold aftermarket parts prices to. No frame of reference.

As an example, aftermarket cooling tinware - this is exactly why people seek out increasingly difficult to source factory cooling tinware - to them it is not worth reworking brand new parts to force them to fit and work where they wouldn't without some persuasion.

But in the case of heater boxes, unless you want to track down a used set and pay exorbitant shipping due to size and weight, the aftermarket units look pretty attractive. Especially with no corrosion issues like the 55 year old used boxes are likely to have.

But then there's the terrible fit. A lot of us knew that. Apparently the OP did not.

Give him a chance to work through this. Give him advice when and where needed. That's why we all participate.

[Cusser]

Original poster needs to do a review of this product on the JBugs site.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

Map gas @ the bend and gracefully pull down till its straight. I could of fixed both in less time then you spent complaining. Everything needs extra tweaking. Its what we have, work with it. Are you a builder or a dealer R&R machinic. They were 150$ Cheap parts need to be fitted its the same with all classic cars. I'm thankful we can even get the parts at all. Imagine the bitching if they weren't even offered. You will be begging for those 150$ heater boxes that just need a fitment work.
_________________
Key is to have downward travel Preload keep both wheels on the ground at all times once you lift a tire your DONE. Guys worry about clearance instead think of the opposite you want the suspension to drop that tire in the hole and keep you going. A spider for example they keep their body low but their legs can reach pretty far so they don't (bottom out)

[bedlamite]

If you return them it's possible the next set would be just as bad. I'd probably cut and reweld the flange.
_________________
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

[raygreenwood]

A couple of things.

I have never had to buy complete new heater boxes.....but have installed a few for other people. Tbis "exhaust aftermarket" issue has been around for decades.

On mufflers for type 4 cars....Dansk has sucked in one or more ways most of my life. Either flanges not flat and parallel or spacing on pipes sucked or tailpipe don't fit.

For the most part, it has not been bad material or poor cutting etc.....its been shitty welding. The welding has not been weak, it's been oversized and sloppy closing up ports and obviously overheated on certain parts causing warpage to what is essentially a box of sheet metal and tubes welded together.

I think it's likely the mandrel bends on the head side suffered similar fate on the heaters boxes the OP bought.

I would start like this.

1. Take a gasket and match it up to your head outlet port on both studs. Make sure the port between the two studs is centered with the gasket.

Note: also if these are not actual original factory heads from VW....do not assume that the ports and studs are in 100% the exact place they should be. On not only aftermarket but some Brazilian cast VW heads, there are all kinds of mold "core shift" issues over the decades that can put an exhaust or intake port a millimeter or so out of place or even just out of plane.

2. After trying out the gasket on the studs and verifying the port is centralized with the gasket.....take the same gasket and try it onto the heater box flange that is going to bolt to the head port you just checked.
Is the exhaust port in the gasket in the exact place with the port in the heater box? Are the two studs holes in the gasket correct with the stud holes on the heater box flange?

Both have to be correct. If the port on the gasket matches up with the port on the head and also matches up to the port on the heater box.....but the two studs holes do not match up with the heater box....well.....then there is a chunk of your problem.

A simple solution might be to weld up and redrill them or pick the one that does you the most good to leave alone....and oval the other one out.

If none of those items turns out to be the issue....its a heat the tube and bend it kind of solution.

If these are anything like the problems I have had with Dansk over the years......sending them back will probably get you another pair just like them.

I would bet that it's caused by a combination of a jig that is not perfect and grossly overheating the whole pile of parts during welding. They will likely all be the same.

Don't let me throw too much shade on Dansk. Overall, good quality parts...just some rough construction at times.
Even dating back to 1979, I have never had a Dansk muffler that did not require at least a little bit of filing, grinding or a few taps with a hammer. Ray