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Groovy_Guru
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2025
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Help with 72 superbeetle timing |
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| My bug just stopped cranking over recently. It would turn over but never actually crank so I tried a new ignition coil and installed it, so I thought I might as well try and time the distributor while I was out there. I set the pulley to TDC and i put the ground of the timing light on the carb and I put the other end on the negative side of the coil. I realized no matter where I rotated the distributor the light stayed on. So I just pointed the top part of the distributor to the #1 spark plug wire and put everything together. I tried to start it, still just turned over not actually starting. I go to the back put the pulley back at tdc, take the distributor cap off and now its pointing at #3 somehow. I’m so lost please help |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6774
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Help with 72 superbeetle timing |
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The distributor rotates at exactly half the rotation of the crankshaft. Continue rotating the crankshaft by hand until TDC comes around again and your rotor should be pointing close to #1.
Your engine is still “cranking over”. If it’s not your engine is locked up or your battery is weak.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33106
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Help with 72 superbeetle timing |
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| Groovy_Guru wrote: |
| My bug just stopped cranking over recently. It would turn over but never actually crank .... |
Methinks Groovy is mis-using the term "cranking"; to us, it means that the starter is spinning the engine (hopefully at normal speed). Because of other stuff he did, I think Groovy has "engine cranks but fails to start" situation.
Ask Dr. Phil or Dr. Ruth what "turns over" means.....
Groovy - you're new here, so please don't piggyback on another's thread - start your own.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16590
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Help with 72 superbeetle timing |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Groovy_Guru wrote: |
| My bug just stopped cranking over recently. It would turn over but never actually crank .... |
Groovy - you're new here, so please don't piggyback on another's thread - start your own. |
Cusser being very kind here. Others would likely not be so polite. 
Your “no start problem” is different enough from the original problem above that it deserves it own thread, so start a new one detailing as much as possible what is happening.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79570
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start |
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Split......
Carry on.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33106
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Help with 72 superbeetle timing |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
Groovy - you're new here, so please don't piggyback on another's thread - start your own. |
Cusser being very kind here. Others would likely not be so polite.
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I apologize for my brief lapse into civility !
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 387
Location: Eastern north carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start |
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| Groovy check the points make sure they are clean and regap to .016. hand crank the engine to top dead center until dimple on crank pulley lines up with crack in crankcase AND rotor points to where #1 cylinder is connected to cap. Looking at engine from back #1 cylinder is furthest forward on the right if you want to double check by tracing plug wires back from the distrib cap.set up your test light as before and try it again. If the light is on when you do this you should be able to rotate the dizzy clockwise a little until it goes out and then come back counterclockwise until the light just comes on. This should get you in the ball park. Most of these engines like around 7 to 10 degrees before top dead center for a static light setting. Without knowing year and engine of your car and what marks you may have on your crank pulley that's the best info I can offer at this time-good luck Bob |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16590
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2025 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Help with 72 superbeetle timing |
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| Groovy_Guru wrote: |
| My bug just stopped cranking over recently. It would turn over but never actually crank so I tried a new ignition coil and installed it... |
This is throwing $$ at your problem hoping you come across the problem by chance. It is better to troubleshoot and isolate where the problem is.
When VW owners have trouble getting the engine to run or run smoothly, I direct them to Speedy Jim's page one No Start:
https://speedyjim.net/htm/eng_strt.htm
Read thru this page twice.
Run all the tests and confirm where the results are not what is expected. This will narrow down WHERE the problem is. As it states:
| Quote: |
Well, it takes 3 things for an engine to run:
Compression
Air/Fuel mixture
Spark |
If you engine is not running one or more of the above things is missing.. or coming at the wrong time. You just need to ID which one it is.
| Groovy_Guru wrote: |
| ... so I thought I might as well try and time the distributor while I was out there. I set the pulley to TDC and i put the ground of the timing light on the carb and I put the other end on the negative side of the coil. |
By "timing light" I'm gonna assume you mean a 12v test lamp, and you are attempting to "static time" your distributor?? I just want to make sure you are not using a strobe/inductive timing light in place of a 12v test lamp?? They are used in different ways to check ignition timing.
Key point... the distributor triggers the ignition coil using the points. The points are a simple grounding switch. As the distributor rotates the 4 lobes of the square cam on the distributor shaft will push open the point contacts.
Remove the cap, rotor and point cover (if you have one) so you can watch the point contacts. Manually rotate the crank pulley (engine in Neutral) and you should physically see the point contacts open/close. To get the points to open for all 4 cylinders you will need to rotate the crank pulley 2x (720deg). This confirms the points are working mechanically. If your points are not adjusted correctly the points may remain OPEN all the time, or could remain CLOSED all the time.
Your description above suggests the points are not working mechanically or electrically. When the points close, they ground the small wire that runs from the distributor to the #1 (-) terminal of the ignition coil. When they open, the wire is no longer grounded. The spark from the ignition coil is actually triggered when the point contacts OPEN. Test this by removing the distributor #1 wire from the ignition coil. Rotate the crank until the points are closed. Place your 12v test lamp between the loose end of the #1 wire and the #15 (+) terminal of the coil (#15 is is an ignition switched 12v+ source. If you have an alternator you can instead use the B+ terminal as this is connected to the battery pos (+) post). Turn the ignition switch to the ON/RUN position. When the points ground the wire (closed) the test lamp should turn ON. When the points open, the lamp turns OFF. Using a plastic or wood stick, push the point arm to open the contacts. The light should turn OFF. Release it and when the point contacts close the light should turn ON.
From your earlier description it sounds like your points are NOT grounding the #1 wire. Does your testing here confirm the same? Do your point contacts never touch? Check if the fiber/plastic cam follower on the points arm has fallen off?
Check your point contact surface. They should be flat and clean. This illustration shows what happens over time as the point contact surface gets "burnt" and uneven:
To fix this you need to file down (dress) the point contact surfaces (usually made from tungsten) using a small flat file. You want the surfaces to be clean and flat when they come together. Or you could replace them with new points if they are badly pitted.
Have you set your point gap before checking your ignition timing? Using a 0.016" feeler gauge set the max opening between the point contacts when the cam follower is resting on the peak of one of the lobes. You don't want the gap to be too large or too small. 0.016" should get you into the ball park. Another way to measure the gap is with a dwell meter which gives you the amount of time in angular degrees the points are closed. You want to set points to 47deg +/- 3deg. If you don't have a dwell meter the feeler gauge method is usually good enough. Point gap/dwell change WILL change your ignition timing so make sure to check/adjust your ignition timing after changing the point gap.
| Groovy_Guru wrote: |
| I realized no matter where I rotated the distributor the light stayed on. So I just pointed the top part of the distributor to the #1 spark plug wire and put everything together. I tried to start it, still just turned over not actually starting. I go to the back put the pulley back at tdc, take the distributor cap off and now its pointing at #3 somehow. |
When the test lamp is connected between the #1 (-) terminal of the ignition coil and a ground (static timing mode) it will turn ON when the points are OPEN and turn OFF when the points are CLOSED. When the points close all the current coming off the #1 terminal will flow thru the point contacts to ground so your test lamp turns OFF because almost no current is flowing thru the test bulb. The above tests to make sure the points are closing and they provide a ground path for the #1 wire will confirm if they are working, or not.
Key point: When the TDC mark (and timing notch) on the crank pulley lines up with the case split at the top of pulley rotation it indicates the #1 & #3 pistons are at the top of their strokes. It is NOT an indicator that the #1 piston is ready to receive a spark. There are two times in the 4-stroke cycle when the piston is at top of stroke...
1) At the end of the compression stroke - a spark from the distributor is needed here
2) At the end of the exhaust stroke
You cannot tell from just the crank markings when the #1 cylinder needs a spark.
On an ACVW engine when #1 is at the end of its exhaust stroke the #3 cylinder is at the end of its compression stroke. This is why you saw the rotor pointing to the #3 plug wire when the TDC mark was aligned with the case split. The TDC mark on the crank pulley indicates when BOTH #1 and #3 cylinders are at the top of their strokes.
Read Speedy Jim's page and look at the section called "The test". It walks you thru how to confirm if your engine is at the end of the #1 compression stroke using valve movement. Once the engine is in position to receive a spark at the #1 cylinder, YOU need to install the #1 plug wire into the distributor post over the rotor tip. This ensures the distributor is delivering a spark to the correct spark plug when that cylinder is ready for a spark.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 387
Location: Eastern north carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Won't start |
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| Was any progress made in getting this started? |
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Groovy_Guru
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2025
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start |
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| Yes I’m very new to this forum and to old bugs in general, I’ve wanted an old bug since I was very very young. I finally got one, but it came with a few issues. Not a lot of folks in my area would know how to fix these so I came here. And tried to explain my problems to the best of my new found knowledge on these bad boys. I will try the stuff you suggested and get back to you all. I appreciate your patience. |
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Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 387
Location: Eastern north carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Won't start |
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| Don't get discouraged and get a copy of " how to keep your Volkswagen alive" by John Muir. It explains how to do almost everything on these cars in a very easy to understand way. It was how I began working on these in 1968. Good luck |
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baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2059
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start |
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| Bobs67vwagen wrote: |
| Don't get discouraged and get a copy of " how to keep your Volkswagen alive" by John Muir. It explains how to do almost everything on these cars in a very easy to understand way. It was how I began working on these in 1968. Good luck |
I'll second the above advice -- if you're fairly new to working on cars in general, and ACVW's in particular, there's almost no better resource/experience available than taking the time to read through one of the "John Muir" manual series books. They generally have excellent guidance for beginners on how to think, understand, and plan through whole procedures, before you begin the actual physical process.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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