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Bansheelos
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2012
Posts: 313
Location: NY/NJ
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JonnyPhenomenon
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Lewiston, Maine, USA, Earth
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 Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
I'm interested in details in how you have your heater set up-where the core is, what you use for a fan, how you control it, etc.
Thanks! |
hah! yeah, its pretty crude really, Ive just got two little oil cooler style radiators with little 12cm computer case fans connected to a switch on the dash. they are sitting on the floor in the front.
this is the only pic I can find of it.
it does a heck of a job heating up my ankles! 
actually, I have stuck a piece of cardboard in front of the drivers side one to deflect it upward so it heats more uniformly. This is all temporary, and I eventually will be building a proper heater box with blend flaps and whatnot that will be installed under the front cabin floor.
The VR6 engine has a little auxilliary water pump for the heating circuit which comes on when I flip the switch for the fans. this gets those little radiators hot enough to heat the whole bus in no time.
combine this with the heated seats I just installed, and the bus is cozy enough for t-shirts and shorts even on the coldest days. |
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levi20AE
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Are we talking about the same 1.8T???
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Lots of little difference. 4 valve...5 valve.... |
???? They all had 20 valves, 5 per cylinder.
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| compression and bores. |
???? They all had the same bore and stroke in every motor, even the earlier external water pump blocks were the same. Compression was exactly the same for every 1.8T variant except the AWM, lowered from 9.5:1 to 9.3:1.
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| The Audi usnits had little toruble. The VW units had issues. Ray |
The early cars had oil sludging issues from bad owners never changing oil but they fixed that by using the larger oil filters that held almost a quart of oil. That was the same for the A4 and the Passat not a VW vs Audi problem.
There were small differences between turbos but most of the performance differences were the maps for timing and boost in the software.
_________________
1973 Campmobile http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=524511&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
20th AE VW GTI - 369hp 340tq @ 26 PSI
1982 Rabbit Pickup - German AAZ 1.9TD - daily with lots of MPGs |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5868
Location: Wamego, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| JonnyPhenomenon wrote: |
| markd89 wrote: |
Very cool!
How many miles are on the setup now?
What are you getting for MPGs?
Mark |
Ive put quite a few miles on it with this setup. maybe 7-10k? its basically my daily driver. Ive got working heat, heated seats, a bench middle back seat for the kids, and a stereo loud enough to drown them out. what more could a guy want? 
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I'm interested in details in how you have your heater set up-where the core is, what you use for a fan, how you control it, etc.
Thanks! |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23392
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| levi20AE wrote: |
| A VR6 is about the only VW motor I haven't built and I always avoided them due to all the cooling issues. In a mk3 and mk4 those motors had extra coolers and still had overly high oil temps during city driving. They are also longer making them a pain when mounted in golfs and jettas. Maybe the length is not an issue in a bus but the additional cooling will be. I have always been a 1.8t guy myself and never saw the draw of 6 cylinders when you can just add boost and make better numbers with better fuel economy. |
Because the 1.8t was an absolutely miserable design in its first 4 years...reliability wise. It had heat issues, valve issues etc.....and again...just like the Vr6...it depends on which one you used. Lots of little difference. 4 valve...5 valve....different compression and bores. The Audi usnits had little toruble. The VW units had issues. Ray |
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JonnyPhenomenon
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Lewiston, Maine, USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| markd89 wrote: |
Very cool!
How many miles are on the setup now?
What are you getting for MPGs?
Mark |
Ive put quite a few miles on it with this setup. maybe 7-10k? its basically my daily driver. Ive got working heat, heated seats, a bench middle back seat for the kids, and a stereo loud enough to drown them out. what more could a guy want?
one thing of note, those old trannys dont hold up too well to all that extra power. I am in the process of building a new tranny for it, with peloquin limited slip diff and pro cut slider gears from Long Enterprises. just waiting on a new 3-4 shift fork to arrive and then I should have killler traction for the upcoming snow season |
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markd89
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Very cool!
How many miles are on the setup now?
What are you getting for MPGs?
Mark
_________________
78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
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JonnyPhenomenon
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Lewiston, Maine, USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:04 am Post subject: |
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lets see if I can quickly clarify some things and answer some of your questions...
First, the engine is a 93 obd1 12v distributor vr6. not coil packs. the engine electronics/ECU, Fuse box, and coil are all mounted in the spare tire well.
the overheating issues have been solved by adding the secondary water pump, oil cooler, and lowering the highway rpms.
Note:
I never had overheating problems during city driving. I only had trouble at highway speeds. in fact, before I swapped the tranny and got the bigger tires when the engine would get too hot all I would have to do is slow down or stop and let it idle for a while and it would come right down in temps.
...Which is what reinforces my theory that the position of the radiator (laying flat underneath the center of the bus, without any ductwork) isnt ideal, and plays a role in the poor performance of the cooling system at highway speeds. At those speeds the bus is probably creating a large pocket of negative air pressure around itself which reduces the density of the air around the radiator and impedes cooling.
My bet is that with a little bit of ductwork all of the temp issues would be resolved. Too bad we dont have access to a wind tunnel...
I have toyed with the idea of taking some pressure readings from various places around the bus to see where the highest amount of air flow can be obtained. Now that I am reminded of it, Ill go buy a pressure/vac gauge from ebay right now, and add that to my weekend to do list.
(Markd89)
RE: tranny mount, I removed the bell housing bracketry to make room for the engine and cooling hoses. the front of the nose cone is all thats holding that end up, and I used the stock vr6 rear motor mount, and we fabbed up a mirror image of it for the front side of the engine.
anyway, thats all for now. Ive got to get to work. |
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markd89
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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JonnyPhenomenon,
Cool bus!
Did you retain the original bellhousing transmission mount or are you just mounting the trans at the nosecone end?
If you have more pics, please post!
Mark
_________________
78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
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levi20AE
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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A VR6 is about the only VW motor I haven't built and I always avoided them due to all the cooling issues. In a mk3 and mk4 those motors had extra coolers and still had overly high oil temps during city driving. They are also longer making them a pain when mounted in golfs and jettas. Maybe the length is not an issue in a bus but the additional cooling will be. I have always been a 1.8t guy myself and never saw the draw of 6 cylinders when you can just add boost and make better numbers with better fuel economy.
_________________
1973 Campmobile http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=524511&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
20th AE VW GTI - 369hp 340tq @ 26 PSI
1982 Rabbit Pickup - German AAZ 1.9TD - daily with lots of MPGs |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23392
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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For those who 7 years ago commented they would not have a Vr-6...because they worked on....a few....I would inquire as to which generation of Vr-6.
These are AWESOME motors....and had several generations. The Corrado units are very different in spec from those used in other VW's. the Corrado was ages ago.
It came in versions ranging from 2.8 liters, 2.9, 3.2, 3.6 and even a V-5 version in the Bora. With valves ranging from 12 to 24....and has won numerous industry innovation awards.
Thy were used in production vehicles up through 2008
Ray |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4774
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| JonnyPhenomenon wrote: |
| Now I can cruise at 90 no problem. |
until there's a problem...
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 93 Multivan 5cyl 5M/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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Sloride
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002
Posts: 927
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JonnyPhenomenon
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Lewiston, Maine, USA, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| 1967250s wrote: |
| Great mod, would like to see more of the work done, frame, tank, electric, etc. . Should have kept the red though. Now it looks like any other chevy van rat rod............ |
thanks I plan on putting up a proper build thread some day, just haven't got the time right now.
p.s. It goes pretty good. Handles better now too, now that I have the sway bars and Koni Adjustable shocks installed. the narrowed front beam doesn't do much for stability I'm afraid.. |
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1967250s
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 2137
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Great mod, would like to see more of the work done, frame, tank, electric, etc. . Should have kept the red though. Now it looks like any other chevy van rat rod............ |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17920
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:16 am Post subject: |
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In stock form, a 1st gen VR6 made like 170 hp 170tq. You're not far off with your numbers. Those engines made torque to the bitter end! Cool bus!
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22681
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Now that looks like fun! Im always impressed to see some one take the time to build what they want from an otherwise dead car.
I bet it goes like stink 
_________________
| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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JonnyPhenomenon
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Lewiston, Maine, USA, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: |
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I know this is a totally dead thread, but I figured I would bring it back to life because it was asking about fitting a vr6 into a bay
I don't have much time, so I will just sum up.
I took a 78 bay that had suffered a premature end due to the infamous fuel line fire...
using an adapter kit from Kennedy Engineering
combined it with (at the time) a 5 rib pyramid 002 case, (ive got an 091 in there now)
fabbed up a clever engine carrier using two mk3 motor mount pedestals,
some custom stainless exhaust with borla muffler
Next up, I installed a mk3 radiator between the frame rails in the middle of the bus. it lays flat, so cooling was not the greatest, but I was able to solve overheating issues in a number of ways. Ill save that for another thread.
after about 8 cans of flat black paint, I took it to Wolfsgart
put it on the dyno,
got some conflicting numbers, so took it to Rennen for a second opinion.
146 hp, 145tq. Not great for a vr6, but it has since had timing chains and a tunup done, so it feels better now.
also,
I have since fitted some bigger wheels and a longer geared (091)transmission to it to get my RPMS down a bit. Highway speeds with the original setup was just too much. Now I can cruise at 90 no problem.
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3875
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sbbfuk
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Weston-Super-Mare UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:27 am Post subject: VR6 kit |
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The reason I asked is that my friend (who builds, restores racing cars & classic cars for a living) who's not a lover of the VW bus unless it's got 300BHP + as been asked by a customer of is to look at 4 split's he has coming from south africa and want's him to fit a VR6 into one of them (a small job for me friend compaired to some of his work) He's trying to talk me into having one fited to my bus, but would like to go the turbo route or 911 engine.
Mind you his lambo (V12) engine would sound better and as the HP, not sure he'll go for that.
If anyone is interested in a fitting kit just let me know, because he might be able to supply one.
Keep a look out at next years show for a VR6 powered split.
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My bus is the muts nuts |
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