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chrisd1891
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Joined: April 30, 2009
Posts: 257
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:54 am Post subject: Re: My 14" wheel rear disc brake upgrade |
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Edit: lmao, just realized this post was originally for a vanagon. Well, same general steps work on a baywindow bus. The brackets may not fit a vanagon, ymmv. But notes about merc vs audi rotors still apply.
Thanks for the initial post. It was really helpful during my upgrade. My conversion is now working, and with the extra power from the EJ swap, it's really nice having brakes that feel modern.
I'll just add a few notes on some changes I made. I preferred using the 1990 Mercedes 190E rotor. The rotor has a step in it, which means you don't need to turn the hubs down as much on the lathe. I was a little uneasy when I got the Audi A6 rotor and measured and found how much of the hub had to be machined off. The drawback of this is that the brake pads don't totally fit, you can see the little ears on the pads don't sit against the carrier, as the inner edge of the pad rubs on the middle part of the rotor. This was easily fixed on the bandsaw - I took about 3mm off the inner edge of each pad and everything works great now. So you can choose to have "custom" brake pads and a bit more material on the hub with the Mercedes rotors, or use the Audi rotors, take some more material off the hubs so they fit inside the smaller rotors, and use regular pads. I'm not sure which is better, but I chose the Mercedes route.
When making the brackets, I did several iterations in plastic to ensure everything would fit. There is really very little clearance, so it took several attempts. The MK4 VW Golf calipers which are aluminum will *not* fit as they're bulkier than the MK3 calipers which are cast iron. While OP attached the brackets to the front of the hub carrier, I attached them to the back. I did this because it makes the bracket a little thicker, and I'm just not concerned about unsprung weight because it's a bus. I've uploaded my model I made here: https://www.printables.com/model/933803-vw-bus-disc-brake-conversion-bracket . Print it out and trace the sections onto steel and it *should* all Just Work.
Last thing is that the levers for the E-brake from the golf calipers can be used, but they need to be flipped, which is easy, since they're just splined holes, they can go on in any orientation. The levers need to be extended by an inch or so to get sufficient leverage from the e-brake puller. But after that modification to bend the levers, shave a bit of metal off them so the e-brake cable hook can fit on, the existing E-brake cable actually sits in the little hook perfectly, no modification needed to the existing cable. They work great and it feels much stronger than the original e-brake.
Braking performance is way better. Much less pedal travel, much better pedal feel, and much smoother. Good riddance to the drums.
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pinetreeporsche
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Joined: June 11, 2009
Posts: 752
Location: Falls Church, VA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| gregaz wrote: |
Has anyone else done this conversion? Any updates?
I like the cost aspect and the ability to keep 14" wheels / tires. The cost to redo drums is close to $350 (I don't want to do it myself due to the torque needed on the hub nut and the adjustments), so if this is a real alternative at almost the same cost - sounds like it'd be a great way to go. |
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Here's a money (and time/trouble) alternative, at least for tin-tops or Westies not carrying extra weight on the rear (like r tire mount, ladders, etc as often seen on 4-wd). The point is that even w/the VW's rear motor, when the brakes are used hard much of the car's weight transfers to the f wheels. So, before major work is done on the r brakes, consider doing this minimal upgrade:
Replace all rubber hoses in the brake system-- these should always be fresh anyhow. Get all the slack out of your emergency brake: if the cable is not able to be adjusted to pull tighter-- put a shim or two on the threaded rod at the split/junction and put the adjuster nut back on to bring the shoes up close to the r drums. If they're are still not braking without some pedal play, try bringing the e-brake handle up one click, and see if the shoes still clears. If it doesn't clear: back off the e-brake adjuster nut at the junction mentioned above until it just brings up the r shoes to the r drums. YOU WANT the rears to come on immediately as the fluid pressure rises as the pedal is pressed. Of course the shoes should be of moderate, or even full, thickness, and the inside of the drums as well as the surface of the drums be lightly sanded to break any glaze. This will probably be as good as you need at the rear considering the weight transfer; you might decide instead to put more of your $ into the fronts, where it matters most. |
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backyardbob
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Joined: August 18, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: Gresham, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:06 am Post subject: Re: My 14" wheel rear disc brake upgrade |
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Anybody know if the VW factory mag wheels (1984) will fit with this rear brake setup? I've measured the mags vs the stock 14" wheels and the mags are 1/8" smaller inside diameter in one place, and the mag Inside diameter is a little bigger in another.....? I'll do the bigger front and rear brakes 'cuz the factory brakes just don't cut it. 5,000 pound Westy, with Bostig power. Thanks!! Bob
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Type17
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Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 300
Location: Chicagoland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| gregaz wrote: |
Has anyone else done this conversion? Any updates?
I like the cost aspect and the ability to keep 14" wheels / tires. The cost to redo drums is close to $350 (I don't want to do it myself due to the torque needed on the hub nut and the adjustments), so if this is a real alternative at almost the same cost - sounds like it'd be a great way to go. |
sorry but you still need to remove the hub to have it machined. a long breaker bar and a heavy person should be all you need, but i will admit i've never done it on a van any other way than with air tools.
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gregaz
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Joined: May 22, 2012
Posts: 407
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone else done this conversion? Any updates?
I like the cost aspect and the ability to keep 14" wheels / tires. The cost to redo drums is close to $350 (I don't want to do it myself due to the torque needed on the hub nut and the adjustments), so if this is a real alternative at almost the same cost - sounds like it'd be a great way to go. |
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rs4-380
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Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 449
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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1 year update:
Still happy with the performance, no issues, no adjustments needed. Rotors and pads are wearing correctly.
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87 EJ25 Syncro GL |
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r39o
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: |
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It looks like you made brakets out of flat stock. Then welded. That right?
What thickness did you use? Do you have a drawing or sketch to share, please?
TIA,
Walt
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winkshog
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Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 294
Location: Mich-Wallhalla
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
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thanks for the info i will be doing this upgrade this winter
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rs4-380
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Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 449
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| winkshog wrote: |
Did you do anything to the front brakes?
sean |
just pads. I looked at options, but it's tough to fit anything bigger under a 14" wheel. I'm happy with the overall system performance right now.
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winkshog
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Location: Mich-Wallhalla
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Did you do anything to the front brakes?
sean
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r39o
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Bern,
Do post pictures.
I am always curious about the E brake and how easy it is to hook up. Some setups (small car) are really not so good or easy.
We all await the pictures.
TIA,
Walt...
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Bern
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Joined: March 08, 2004
Posts: 152
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ProvoCyclist wrote: |
| cool, what kind of calipers does it use? |
audi 5kqt rears....
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rs4-380
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Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 449
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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dogpilot is right, basically the face of the mounting bracket and the face of the carrier sit at the same axis in space, so in order to bolt the two together, you need to offset the face of the adapter.
I'm very happy with it, wouldn't make any changes.
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87 EJ25 Syncro GL |
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ProvoCyclist
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Joined: December 07, 2004
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Location: Murray, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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cool, what kind of calipers does it use?
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Current: 1986 Tintop GL 2wd, stock 2.1L, manual trans, Savanna Beige Metallic LH1V.
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Bern
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Joined: March 08, 2004
Posts: 152
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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i'm in the process of building my own rear disc brake kit as i type this... it will include a one piece bracket and rotors that need VERY LITTLE machining of the hub...
keep an eye out, i'll have a write up posted within a week or two...
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Dogpilot
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Joined: October 03, 2005
Posts: 4205
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: |
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The reason he used two pieces is the plate surface the caliper mounts to needs to be just a tiny amount behind the plane of the old mounting surface. On the smallcar kit I got, they had the piece joggled (bent back a bit). Unfortunately mine was not joggled quite enough, so I had to put in a few shims between the hub and the bearings to make the disk stick out further.
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ProvoCyclist
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Joined: December 07, 2004
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Location: Murray, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to ressurect this thread, but im finally getting to the point where im goign to be making some big upgrades power-wise, and i need to bump up my braking abilities (among other things).
A couple questions. 1) what size stock did you use to make the brackets? 2) how much offset is there? it looks like you just added an additional layer of steel stock in there to get it right. 3) how is it all working for you? anything you'd change now that youve had it done and in service for a while?
Cheers!
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Clark
Current: 1986 Tintop GL 2wd, stock 2.1L, manual trans, Savanna Beige Metallic LH1V.
Past: 1985 Sunroof GL, 2wd, Subaru 3.3L, manual trans, resprayed to Diamond Silver L97A |
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rs4-380
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Posts: 449
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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sorry it took so long. It's tight quarters in there, so its difficult to get a shot of everything, but here you can see the adapter and how it's made out of several pieces of steel welded together to get the proper offset for the caliper carrier.
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Dave
87 EJ25 Syncro GL |
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r39o
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Joined: May 18, 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.
Reason is, although I can go with bigger, I am hoping to reuse the 14 inch spare. Rare as it is to get a flat, I can hopefully just put a big rear tire on the front and the 14 in spare in the back, if I got a flat in the front.
I just do not know if my 215.65-16 will fit under the front somehow. Plus the tires are $120 each and with such infrequent use will rot, most likely, before I ever use it.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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rs4-380
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Posts: 449
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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no, there is an offset, as the mounting face that you use for mounting the carrier is pretty much on the same plane that the caliper mounting needs to be on, but of course you need some thickness for strength.
I'll try to dig something up tomorrow.
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87 EJ25 Syncro GL |
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