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michemo 
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2016
Posts: 13
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
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 Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: '72 Westy: Converting from Cot to Full Bed? |
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i have both cots 4 a 70s modle or late 60s van the childs cot with the hooks on the end for mounting and the larger audult sixe which has to be bolted on i have all the hardware on both evecpt the hooks that r bolted to the van and the bolts 4 bouting the big one to the van just wondering if anyone knows what they r worth cant seem to find hardware anywhere on web bus boys has new canvas 4 them both mine dont need it but just saying new canvas is about 400 just wondering if anyone out there has ever bought any of these mike [email protected] 225 335 3555
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all my parts r + shipping i use the cheapest shipping unless ask to get it there in a hurry |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52772
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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HairLilly
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2007
Posts: 192
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| thanks for the info, and the sketch would be really helpful as well, i look forward to it. |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: Retro-fitting a pre-1974 Westfalia, plywood-based, roof bed |
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A few days ago, whilst visiting my grandparents' home, I did some measurements on my British specification, 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan's elevating-roof bed.
Regarding front-to-rear measurements as length and side-to-side measurements as width, the measured dimensions, to a precision of about ± 1 mm, are as follows:
plywood base-boards' thickness = 15~16 mm
Main plywood base-board – length = 1300 mm, width = 970 mm
Pillow-section plywood base-board – length = 315 mm, width = 890 mm
I envisage that the base-board widths could be marginally increased; the main base-board, by circa 50~60 mm and the pillow-section base-board, by circa 100~110 mm. Some gap between the base-boards and the surrounding roof aperture, must be maintained, owing to clearance of the roof-bed and elevating-roof fittings.
If I get the opportunity, I shall try to post a sketch in The Samba Gallery, showing the relative disposition of some of the various components & fittings, pertaining to the roof bed and the main roof aperture.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Retro-fitting a pre-1974 Westfalia, plywood-based, roof |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| If you do fabricate one of these beds yourself, make sure the gap for the pillow section is large enough, for your children to climb through, based upon present and "likely" future waist measurements and keep in mind the 180 pound (i.e. 81 kg) load limit!!! |
What I should also have said, is that the gap for the pillow section, should also large enough, to accommodate the head & upper body of any adults, so that the elevating roof can first be raised.
Of course, if one were to retro-fit gas springs, like those I have on my British specification, 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental, as illustrated below, then even the children using only one hand, could probably raise the elevating roof by themselves, provided they could reach high enough!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=294831
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=294830
As an aside, another useful upgrade, is a home-made pull-close strap, as illustrated below, which enables one to quietly close the sliding door, when making mid-night sorties to the campsite toilet facilities!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=295020
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: Retro-fitting a pre-1974 Westfalia, plywood-based, roof bed |
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| Redd73 wrote: |
one day im just gonna trade my 73 for a 74 or later. right now all my girl and i need is covered by the bed thats currently in the 73.
if someone has a cot and changes it to this bed drop me a pm. id be interested in buying the cot/frame/etc. im trying to get this 73 back as original as possible for a future trade/sale. |
Personally speaking, I prefer to have a 1973 model year, VW Type 2, manufactured prior to 1st January 1973, which in Great Britain, is classified as an "historic vehicle" and hence excempt from payment of annual road tax, which would probably be nearly £200 i.e. circa US$400) per year, in addition to about 70% petrol tax, motoring insurance and insurance tax.
In the not too distant future, we will probably also have to pay Carbon Dioxide emissions tax, plus road pricing by the mile, according to road type and time of day.
In the long term, I would prefer to substitute a longer, rear-hinged, post-1973 elevating roof & associated longer, wider bed, plus the shorter front-mounted roof-rack.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: Retro-fitting a pre-1974 Westfalia, plywood-based, roof bed |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
So the pillow section is not split in the middle and does not fold up, only down?
To get out of the upper bunk you lift the pillow section slightly and move the bent rod device that hangs over the edge of the hole and supports the pillow allowing it to swing down?
Is the stripe down the middle a strap for lifting it back up? |
Yes, you are correct on all counts.
The pillow section tilts up slightly, to allow one to rotate the bent supporting rod out of the way and then the pillow section folds round underneath, through 180º, to fasten to the bed's plywood base-board.
If you do fabricate one of these beds yourself, make sure the gap for the pillow section is large enough, for your children to climb through, based upon present and "likely" future waist measurements and keep in mind the 180 pound (i.e. 81 kg) load limit!!!
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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Redd73
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2007
Posts: 836
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
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one day im just gonna trade my 73 for a 74 or later. right now all my girl and i need is covered by the bed thats currently in the 73.
if someone has a cot and changes it to this bed drop me a pm. id be interested in buying the cot/frame/etc. im trying to get this 73 back as original as possible for a future trade/sale.
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"...theres nowhere to go but everywhere." - Kerouac
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73 Westy 2000cc w/dual solex (engine code GE) + aftermarket AC |
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Duncwarw
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Interesting. I hadn;t thought about having a bed that could attach to the roof and get out of the way.
My '73 has the cot which is now right over the kitchen.
A bed like that would solve two problems. One day....
Thanks Nigel & the gang.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52772
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: |
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So the pillow section is not split in the middle and does not fold up, only down?
To get out of the upper bunk you lift the pillow section slightly and move the bent rod device that hangs over the edge of the hole and supports the pillow allowing it to swing down?
Is the stripe down the middle a strap for lifting it back up?
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: Retro-fitting a pre-1974 Westfalia, plywood-based, roof bed |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Now we're getting somewhere, thanks Nigel.
Please tell me if I'm on the right track here.
It looks like the front end of the bed's hinges are attached to the bus roof and tall enough to clear the curve of the roof.
There's a couple of the long bumpers (like the roof supports and cot rest on(also truck gate stops)) part way along to support the sides of the bed.
The bent rod thingy at the rear to support the folding sections swings down when the top is down.
I would imagine the front hinge geometry would have to be in just the right spot or the bed would move longitudinally as the top was lowered, popping the holdowns out of their cups and dropping the bed on your head.
I'm still perplexed as to how the folding section hinges around underneath. I see what look like metal supports and recievers on the edge of the sunroof hole but for each side to be able to fold individually it can only have a small hinge in the center for the fold around action. I assume the folding board has a piano hinge longitudinally along the center seam.
Is there a lip on the rear of the main bed board it rests on when deployed or is only supported by the center hinge and the bent rod thingy at the rear? What holds it in the folded position ? Any chance of some pics of what you can see with it folded up?
Sorry for the windy post by my kids are rapidly outgrowing the cots in our camper and this setup is the perfect answer. |
You are fairly accurate in most of your suppositions:
« It looks like the front end of the bed's hinges are attached to the bus roof and tall enough to clear the curve of the roof. »
That is correct!
« There's a couple of the long bumpers (like the roof supports and cot rest on (also truck gate stops)) part way along to support the sides of the bed. »
There are some steel supports, screwed to the underside of the bed's plywood, which rest on sheet-steel, L-shaped reinforcements, screwed to the edge of the steel-roof aperture.
There are some circular rubber bungs, screwed to the underside of the bed's plywood base, close to the outer edges, which rest on the steel roof and help to support the bed.
« The bent rod thingy at the rear to support the folding sections swings down when the top is down. »
This is folded down, to support the bed's fold-up pillow section, once the bed is occupied by the person using it.
« I would imagine the front hinge geometry would have to be in just the right spot or the bed would move longitudinally as the top was lowered, popping the holdowns out of their cups and dropping the bed on your head. »
Not at all! One lowers the bed and the elevating roof, independently of each other! When one stops the vehicle after driving, one first raises the elevating roof and then raises the bed afterwards, to gain headroom whilst cooking or dining, etc.
« I'm still perplexed as to how the folding section hinges around underneath. I see what look like metal supports and recievers on the edge of the sunroof hole but for each side to be able to fold individually it can only have a small hinge in the center for the fold around action. I assume the folding board has a piano hinge longitudinally along the center seam.
Is there a lip on the rear of the main bed board it rests on when deployed or is only supported by the center hinge and the bent rod thingy at the rear? What holds it in the folded position ? Any chance of some pics of what you can see with it folded up? »
The slightly narrower, upholstered pillow section, is simply hinged (not piano hinge) by two zinc-plated steel hinges, to the bed's plywood base-board. There is no lip.
There are two shaped prongs and recepticles, akin to elongated press-studs, which retain the upholstered pillow section, in the folded position.
It is unlikely that the ISO 100, 35 mm format, colour reversal film, in my 1979 vintage, Olympus OM2 SLR camera, will be sent off for processing, for several months yet, after I have finished the 36+ frames.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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sxuxrxf
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: Oceanside, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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The Type2.com library has several articles on doing the swap. Click on "Library" and then choose "bed".
For those who don't know about this site, check it out!
http://www.type2.com/
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vwcampin
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2002
Posts: 392
Location: Omaha
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Here is what one looks like from the bottom when installed. Sorry, but the bus is long gone and I can't really remember a lot about how it was installed....
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1986 Vanagon Syncro Westfalia Weekender |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52772
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Now we're getting somewhere, thanks Nigel.
Please tell me if I'm on the right track here.
It looks like the front end of the bed's hinges are attached to the bus roof and tall enough to clear the curve of the roof.
There's a couple of the long bumpers (like the roof supports and cot rest on(also truck gate stops)) part way along to support the sides of the bed.
The bent rod thingy at the rear to support the folding sections swings down when the top is down.
I would imagine the front hinge geometry would have to be in just the right spot or the bed would move longitudinally as the top was lowered, popping the holdowns out of their cups and dropping the bed on your head.
I'm still perplexed as to how the folding section hinges around underneath. I see what look like metal supports and recievers on the edge of the sunroof hole but for each side to be able to fold individually it can only have a small hinge in the center for the fold around action. I assume the folding board has a piano hinge longitudinally along the center seam.
Is there a lip on the rear of the main bed board it rests on when deployed or is only supported by the center hinge and the bent rod thingy at the rear? What holds it in the folded position ? Any chance of some pics of what you can see with it folded up?
Sorry for the windy post by my kids are rapidly outgrowing the cots in our camper and this setup is the perfect answer.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: Retro-fitting a pre-1974 Westfalia, plywood-based, roof bed |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Why must you tease us so ??? 
If I was closer I'd come help push, that bed setup is something we would all love to see. |
I wouldn't go out of my way to tease you about this, knowing how deprived pre-1974 Westfalia owners are in the USA, having to make do with folding canvas cots, instead of proper beds!
For the foreseeable future, the best I could do, was to post this excerpt, from the British specification, 1973 VW Type 2 Westfalia Continental, campervan handbook, showing the upholstered, plywood-based, elevating-roof bed, which was used instead of a folding canvas cot, as were fitted to USA specification vehicles.
The bed has a quoted maximum payload of 180 pounds (i.e. 81 kg). Hence, it's only suitable for two pre-teenage children or one adult. As a 5'10½" (i.e. 1·79 m) tall and 9~9½ stone (i.e. 126~133 pounds or 57~60 kg) weight adult, I commonly used this bed in the past.
I think the plywood base, is about ½ inch (i.e. 12·7 mm) thick and the upholstery, about 1 inch (i.e. 25·4 mm) thick.
The plywood base, is hinged at the front, so that it can be raised to give interior headroom, when the bed is not needed for sleeping. In the raised position, it is supported by the rubber roof-fastening toggles, which are normaly used to hold the elevating roof down, when driving.
Carole Fell-Smith, in Kent, England, who also owns a 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, sent me a photocopy of the handbook, about six months ago; I having been oblivious to their existence, since my father bought our second-hand campervan, back in January 1975, nearly 32½ years ago.
If you send Carole a personal message, she might be able to take some pictures for you:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=90536
If not Carole, I suspect there are other British specification, 1973 VW Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan owners in Great Britain, New Zealand or Australia, who could oblige.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52772
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Why must you tease us so ???
If I was closer I'd come help push, that bed setup is something we would all love to see.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: '72 Westy: Converting from Cot to Full Bed? |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
How about some pictures Nigel ?
Pleeeease  |
Sorry, that's not practical at the moment. The vehicle is in my garage, without its engine, for the foreseeable future.
If I pushed it out to take photographs, I wouldn't be able to push it back up the slope, to get it back in the garage.
I have for some time, wanted to take some similar photographs, for my forthcoming article, in VW Camper & Commercial magazine, showing my gas-spring assisted pop top upgrade, but that too will have to wait!
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52772
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: |
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How about some pictures Nigel ?
Pleeeease
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: '72 Westy: Converting from Cot to Full Bed? |
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| DugsBus wrote: |
| ccpalmer wrote: |
Yes, you should have paid more attention.
Converting to a double bed upstairs would be a MAJOR project to do right. Look at a late Bay Westy - the roof is cut out and plywood put in. Maybe if you had been a carpenter and a body man for 10 years it would be easy. |
Actually hit on a design idea that would keep the integrity intact. I'll post with pictures later in the Fall when I am able to tackle the project. |
Try looking at the British specification, pre-1974, VW Type 2 Westfalia Continental, with front-hinged pop top, which has the factory-fitted, full-width, plywood based, roof bed, which did not involve any cutting of the steel or GRP roofs.
My own British specification, early-1973 model-year, VW Type 2 Westfalia Continental, has this setup.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
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camit34
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 1567
Location: Chula Vista, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| DugsBus wrote: |
| Actually hit on a design idea that would keep the integrity intact. I'll post with pictures later in the Fall when I am able to tackle the project. |
Please do...
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In search of a Vanagon
1971 Westy (SOLD)
1971 Deluxe (SOLD)
1967 Freedom Camper (SOLD)
1965 Bug (SOLD) |
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