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0nebadbug
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2009
Posts: 1087
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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^^^ *ding*... yes the first 2 revisions were made in '55 for the '56 model year...
I went through this with mine when I tried to replace it's cover... The first 2 early revisions from PR #1 & PR #2 are each very similar in appearance but are totally different and distinguishing between #1 & #2 can drive you batty! And oops for some reason I was just thinking ribbed door '55 model year, wasn't paying attention... So if it does have factory 2 fold then it will definitely have square corners at the back corners... But seeing as it has a folding crank? Maybe someone just added it as a replacement handle possibly, I am not sure if the latter crank is interchangeable with the early one or not. With that in mind it could mean that the roof that's in it also has the probability of having being grafted in from a later model roof... One dead giveaway immediately would be four round corners. If not, then only the details will determine between them... Below are some of the visual differences I found out about the 2 early versions (the 8/55 PR & the 11/55 PR) of the early 2 fold changeover...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531486&highlight=
Note some of the differences of the header mechanism, note the #screws on their backside, also the latch hook as they differ & the rear tension bow that were used on the 2 rear square corner ones, one is skinny and has 11 holes same as a 3 fold would have and the second version is fatter and has 9 holes with the ends offset on the 2 early revisions of the 1956 model year 2 fold sunroofs...
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Kjell Roar
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008
Posts: 1333
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| 49vwsplit wrote: |
I read this:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=280914&highlight=rag+differences
and quoted this from it:
| djkeev wrote: |
Hi,
Congrats on your oval rag.
1956 was an odd year for the ragtop unit. They went from the 3 fold to two fold roof.
IF this is an original factory top and not a graft in from another year you have a major hurdle if you wish to go stock and factory correct.
There were three (3) different rag tops installed in 1956.
The early model chassis number 1 0929 746 Aug 4, 1955, had a 2 fold roof with one end square corners and one rounded.
The mid model chassis number 1 024 647 November 1955, has the 2 fold and had one end square and one end rounded corners. this newer mechanism will NOT fit into the earlier hole.
The late model Chassis # 1 181 041 May 7, 1956, had all 4 corners rounded off and this is what was used until the end of the ragtop ending in 1963 in the USA, though Europe had them through 1967 on their standard models.
As I said, I've read that the mid and late 2 fold mechanism will NOT fit in the early 2 fold hole. I cannot tell you what the difference is exactly in the mechanism but I think they changed the size of the hole.
Hopefully someone will post with hands onl experience that can tell what the difference is.
The mid and late model changes were differences in the rear plate mounting system and the shape of the plate. You can put in a later mechanism into a mid hole by modifying and making holes for the studs in the back of the roof opening. Does the rear of your opening has slots in the metal or holes with nuts welded from the underside? The latest roof has the slots in the roof.
If you have a very early ragtop, you may have serious issues finding a mechanism unless someone knows how to modify one. If your chassis number Identifies you as an early ragtop, post dimensions of the opening and I'll measure my late one and see how different they are.
If you can, post a photo of the roof area and look carefully for signs of the roof unit having been welded into the car at a later point, sadly some are not very well done at all and it is easy to see problems with the installation.
How's your knowledge of German ??
This site has everything you need to know about installing and adjusting your top.....but it is all in German. I have it scanned in English if that will help, PM me and let me know.
http://www.vw-classic.net/repleitfaden_typ11_52_57/repleitfaden_52_57_kapitel_A.pdf
You want section 10 Schiebedach which is the sunroof.
This site contains the entire 52 -57 Bentley (official VW repair manuals) of the Beetle. The pictures are great and it is page for page the exact same book as the English USA version.
Best of luck
Dave |
Why would you say it was definitely a graft if 2 folds existed in '55?
Is the above poster "djkeev" incorrect in stating his info on "55 ragtops?
The car I'm going to see Monday has this body tag:
1-0747005.
What style rag should it have if it's OG? |
3-fold is the original ragtop on early ovals like yours, 2-fold was introduced as an option 4. august 1955 (from 1-0929746) on the late oval /56 year model.
_________________
I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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49vwsplit
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2011
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I read this:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=280914&highlight=rag+differences
and quoted this from it:
| djkeev wrote: |
Hi,
Congrats on your oval rag.
1956 was an odd year for the ragtop unit. They went from the 3 fold to two fold roof.
IF this is an original factory top and not a graft in from another year you have a major hurdle if you wish to go stock and factory correct.
There were three (3) different rag tops installed in 1956.
The early model chassis number 1 0929 746 Aug 4, 1955, had a 2 fold roof with one end square corners and one rounded.
The mid model chassis number 1 024 647 November 1955, has the 2 fold and had one end square and one end rounded corners. this newer mechanism will NOT fit into the earlier hole.
The late model Chassis # 1 181 041 May 7, 1956, had all 4 corners rounded off and this is what was used until the end of the ragtop ending in 1963 in the USA, though Europe had them through 1967 on their standard models.
As I said, I've read that the mid and late 2 fold mechanism will NOT fit in the early 2 fold hole. I cannot tell you what the difference is exactly in the mechanism but I think they changed the size of the hole.
Hopefully someone will post with hands onl experience that can tell what the difference is.
The mid and late model changes were differences in the rear plate mounting system and the shape of the plate. You can put in a later mechanism into a mid hole by modifying and making holes for the studs in the back of the roof opening. Does the rear of your opening has slots in the metal or holes with nuts welded from the underside? The latest roof has the slots in the roof.
If you have a very early ragtop, you may have serious issues finding a mechanism unless someone knows how to modify one. If your chassis number Identifies you as an early ragtop, post dimensions of the opening and I'll measure my late one and see how different they are.
If you can, post a photo of the roof area and look carefully for signs of the roof unit having been welded into the car at a later point, sadly some are not very well done at all and it is easy to see problems with the installation.
How's your knowledge of German ??
This site has everything you need to know about installing and adjusting your top.....but it is all in German. I have it scanned in English if that will help, PM me and let me know.
http://www.vw-classic.net/repleitfaden_typ11_52_57/repleitfaden_52_57_kapitel_A.pdf
You want section 10 Schiebedach which is the sunroof.
This site contains the entire 52 -57 Bentley (official VW repair manuals) of the Beetle. The pictures are great and it is page for page the exact same book as the English USA version.
Best of luck
Dave |
Why would you say it was definitely a graft if 2 folds existed in '55?
Is the above poster "djkeev" incorrect in stating his info on "55 ragtops?
The car I'm going to see Monday has this body tag:
1-0747005.
What style rag should it have if it's OG?
_________________
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0nebadbug
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2009
Posts: 1087
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:56 am Post subject: |
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The folding handle wasn't introduced until the '63 model year... Also if the rag is a two fold it was definatly grafted beyond the shadow of a doubt... I'm guessing the rear sunroofs corners are probably round as well?
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49vwsplit
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2011
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
I think the folding handle is definitely wrong for that era car!
Bill |
Could you elaborate on that? Is it too old or too new for a '55?
I already have doubts about the car. What should I look for to determine authenticity?
I have this serial number from the body:
1-0747005
664828
Seems to be a Sept '54?
_________________
Officer: License and registration please.
Driver: What's the problem officer?
Officer: It indicates here you require glasses to operate a motor vehicle.
Driver: It's OK officer, I don't wear glasses..I have contacts.
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4776
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Around early Aug of 1955 ('56 model) IIRC... I think the folding handle is definitely wrong for that era car!
Bill
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Thornton VW - Stockton
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49vwsplit
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2011
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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When in 1955 did 3 folds phase out to 2 fold models?
I'm going to see a 2 fold '55 this weekend.
It has a folding type "Golde" handle.
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Officer: License and registration please.
Driver: What's the problem officer?
Officer: It indicates here you require glasses to operate a motor vehicle.
Driver: It's OK officer, I don't wear glasses..I have contacts.
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Kjell Roar
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008
Posts: 1333
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Non Golde 3-fold ragtop:
Sitting in a 54 oval, known history since 57, then the ragtop was there.
Its a Webasto.
_________________
I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4776
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| thebucket wrote: |
| smack wrote: |
that's right, i have seen that folding handle before and completely forgot about it.
hey bucket was that non golde on a late 55' perhaps? |
No I own a late 55 with a golde. The car without the golde is an early 55. 55's are bastrds... |
I also own a late 1955 (June of '55) Deluxe Sunroof that has never been restored and it has the grooved "Golde" handle on it's 3-fold sunroof mechanism.
Bill Bowman
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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alanandi
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2003
Posts: 58
Location: bayreuth - germany
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: |
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my 56 has the golde script. so i think your handle could be aftermarket.
i got a question too.
theres a black plate (i don´t know how it is told correct) above the handle. mine is a original ragtop-standard 56. is this right for a standard or did golde use the chromed plate at standards as well?
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downsbs
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2009
Posts: 540
Location: Avondale, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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My 56 handle doesn't have the golde script on it. Does that mean it is aftermarket?
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1956 Rag W/ Semaphores |
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MargaritaVillain
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 825
Location: Caimanera, Cuba
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56bomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: El Monte CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: rag top |
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| would it look correct if i put the slide rag from my crashed 1960 on to my 1956 oval. if not whats the difference |
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MargaritaVillain
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 825
Location: Caimanera, Cuba
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| David wrote: |
| MargaritaVillain wrote: |
| Can u put a non folding golde handle on a '63? Like if you had a '63 clip and wanted to put in an earlier car could you change out the handle and have a correct looking rag? |
I don't see why not, the folding bit doesn't really serve a function for opening/closing the roof IIRC. |
so could I graft this http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=765279
on to an oval sedan? |
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David
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 2050
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MargaritaVillain wrote: |
| Can u put a non folding golde handle on a '63? Like if you had a '63 clip and wanted to put in an earlier car could you change out the handle and have a correct looking rag? |
I don't see why not, the folding bit doesn't really serve a function for opening/closing the roof IIRC.
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Cheers,
Dave
*October '54 Ragtop
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MargaritaVillain
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 825
Location: Caimanera, Cuba
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| bill may wrote: |
| RareAir wrote: |
| V0LKSWAGENSRULE wrote: |
Eventually, they went to a folding type handle like this:
- 55/3 folds have the grooved handle.
56 - ?? have a solid handle
?? - 63? they eventually went to a folding handle. |
The folding handle is a 1963-only part |
you mean deluxe of course? |
yup! |
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bill may
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 14160
Location: san diego,ca
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| RareAir wrote: |
| V0LKSWAGENSRULE wrote: |
Eventually, they went to a folding type handle like this:
- 55/3 folds have the grooved handle.
56 - ?? have a solid handle
?? - 63? they eventually went to a folding handle. |
The folding handle is a 1963-only part |
you mean deluxe of course?
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MargaritaVillain
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 825
Location: Caimanera, Cuba
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| RareAir wrote: |
| V0LKSWAGENSRULE wrote: |
Eventually, they went to a folding type handle like this:
- 55/3 folds have the grooved handle.
56 - ?? have a solid handle
?? - 63? they eventually went to a folding handle. |
The folding handle is a 1963-only part |
Can u put a non folding golde handle on a '63? Like if you had a '63 clip and wanted to put in an earlier car could you change out the handle and have a correct looking rag? |
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smack
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| thebucket wrote: |
| No I own a late 55 with a golde. The car without the golde is an early 55. 55's are bastrds... |
funny i have an early u.s. 55 and it has a ribbed golde on it. and it's definitely original to the car. |
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David
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 2050
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| RareAir wrote: |
| The folding handle is a 1963-only part |
Thanks for filling in the missing link. 
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Cheers,
Dave
*October '54 Ragtop
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