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kekonaiii
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2002
Posts: 406
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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There is nothing to make right. Over 10,000 sets of pistons sold collectively and not any more problems then MAHLE, Weisco, And JE....
Also I have given some people replacements and other parts that I did NOT have to do.
Well I guess that CB and SCAT and yes even GENE BERG should replace the 1500.00 I spent on a Berg crank back in 1989 that cracked in half. And I guess CB should replace the straight cut gear that let go in my customers motor as well as the Cam and lifters and oil pump.. And I guess SCAT should replace my Drag Fast Shifter I bought in 1986 that broke two days after I got it at the Drag strip. And I guess CIMA should replace the 20 or so Sets of piston I blew up. I could go on and on with the thousands of dollars I have spent buying parts that broke..
You are not being rational in your comments... |
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spunkie
Banned
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Kona, did you ever take care of those that lost everything because your parts failed??? |
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spunkie
Banned
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 10
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Tvättbjörn
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 1437
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Does anybody know about any trouble with the 90mm T4 Piston???? |
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camch
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2004
Posts: 165
Location: griffin ga
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kona and troy thanks for the complement,now lets find out whats going on so this wont happen any more, not saying it will!!!!!!!!! |
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Nater
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Splitdog wrote: |
| Stripped66 wrote: |
Everybody knows the AA pistons are made in China, as are a large percentage of VW aftermarket parts (cranks, rods, etc). Given correct metalurgy and post-manufacturing quality control, there is no reason why a quality part cannot come from China. Scat, Bugpack, and CB Performance cranks and rods are all good examples of this.
But when quality control is not performed, then what guarantee does anybody have that the distributor is getting the parts they requested, and the consumer is getting a part that meets the advirtised claims? Is that not the crux of this problem? |
There's no reason why you won't find a perfectly good wife in a bar. But chances are you won't.
While it's true there are some good parts that come from China, given the choice, I would take one from USA or Germany first. |
Just like the parts....she was good for awhile 
Glad my new pistons are Autocraft  |
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4135
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Stripped66 wrote: |
Everybody knows the AA pistons are made in China, as are a large percentage of VW aftermarket parts (cranks, rods, etc). Given correct metalurgy and post-manufacturing quality control, there is no reason why a quality part cannot come from China. Scat, Bugpack, and CB Performance cranks and rods are all good examples of this.
But when quality control is not performed, then what guarantee does anybody have that the distributor is getting the parts they requested, and the consumer is getting a part that meets the advirtised claims? Is that not the crux of this problem? |
There's no reason why you won't find a perfectly good wife in a bar. But chances are you won't.
While it's true there are some good parts that come from China, given the choice, I would take one from USA or Germany first.
_________________
CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3509
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Everybody knows the AA pistons are made in China, as are a large percentage of VW aftermarket parts (cranks, rods, etc). Given correct metalurgy and post-manufacturing quality control, there is no reason why a quality part cannot come from China. Scat, Bugpack, and CB Performance cranks and rods are all good examples of this.
But when quality control is not performed, then what guarantee does anybody have that the distributor is getting the parts they requested, and the consumer is getting a part that meets the advirtised claims? Is that not the crux of this problem?
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4135
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Stripped66 wrote: |
| kekonaiii wrote: |
I have talked to Thomas in length and we have sent a few of the pistons out new and broken to get tested for the strength of the metal. All this will tell us is that the metal is consistant with what it is claimed to be.
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This is what was needed to be done to EVERY batch of pistons BEFORE they were sent to a single customer. This is called QUALITY CONTROL!!!
When I buy a Wiseco or JE piston, guess what? The premium I pay covers the cost of American manufacturing and QUALITY CONTROL 
Considering the price difference between AA's and its competitors, the price of AA pistons would be reasonable considering they are made in China (cheap material and labor) and IF the price included QUALITY CONTROL. But you've just admitted (what we've suspected all along) that you're not doing the quality control that your competitors' charge for. So what are AA customers getting for their money besides an overpriced liability? |
CHINA!!!!????  You're joking, right? THERE'S the problem right there. Mystery solved. Please. There's too much lead in the composition of the metal. 
_________________
CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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dog_jr911
Swamp Donkey Assistant
Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 2439
Location: 2.0.9
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
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lets see some actual tech sheets, or quality reports. thats really all AA can do! these people here...they want hard facts. not "i did this and your acusing me of that"
tech sheets, quality reports, metal testings... Scan them and post em up
_________________
AKA Chris™
ROCKIN a ESP LTD F2E |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3509
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Marty Staggs wrote: |
$2,000 labor???????
Thanks - my prices just went up! |
I charge twice that amount. That's why my only customer is me
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3509
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| kekonaiii wrote: |
I have talked to Thomas in length and we have sent a few of the pistons out new and broken to get tested for the strength of the metal. All this will tell us is that the metal is consistant with what it is claimed to be.
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This is what was needed to be done to EVERY batch of pistons BEFORE they were sent to a single customer. This is called QUALITY CONTROL!!!
When I buy a Wiseco or JE piston, guess what? The premium I pay covers the cost of American manufacturing and QUALITY CONTROL
Considering the price difference between AA's and its competitors, the price of AA pistons would be reasonable considering they are made in China (cheap material and labor) and IF the price included QUALITY CONTROL. But you've just admitted (what we've suspected all along) that you're not doing the quality control that your competitors' charge for. So what are AA customers getting for their money besides an overpriced liability?
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Ace
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2003
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Do some thermal conditioning and lets shear it. You have to take continuous samples out of the batch to verify QC Tell Thomas he needs to get consulting engineer. A small price increase on a part to insure quality is well worth it to all. I have not heard of one valid quality test being done. I'll repeat it again.
"Flawed testing gives you flawed results." |
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kekonaiii
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2002
Posts: 406
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: |
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It seems to me coming in here and arguing about parts costs is a mute point, what is done is done, and buy arguing I think Kona is only throwing dirt back on top of himself while digging a bigger hole, $1000 or $6000 its in the past. What Troy and others had to pay to get there engines back together is unfortunate but that is the cost of racing, it will happen again, and engines do blow up.
What would be helpful for Kona is to post up informative past and present testing data that will help propel AA forward in the future and show that they are concerned with the quality of the product, and not just blowing smoke, at this point all I see is smoke.
Kona I feel as a business man you are doing AA an unjust cause by judging parts costs (which I feel you are out of touch with) instead of providing pertinent information regarding the legitimate questions of your customers.[/quote]
Did you read this part of my comment...???
| Quote: |
| This is not what are here for BUT I have to address it since the DOOR was opened...... |
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SRP1
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 4342
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| kekonaiii wrote: |
I have gotten many emails and I have answered all of them, but I want to make it clear that I am putting no blame on anyone and we are doing everything within our power to get to the bottom of this. It takes time to get things done. I am sorry for those of you that have had an issue with the Forged Pistons.
I have talked to Thomas in length and we have sent a few of the pistons out new and broken to get tested for the strength of the metal. All this will tell us is that the metal is consistant with what it is claimed to be.
We are also checking with the factory to see if they did anything different in the stamping or machining.
Thus far I am told there was no difference. The graphite coating has nothing to do with anything. There is no way to tell from a used piston if it was the one with or without the graphite.
-The graphite was just the last step to be done. It is grapite spray that its ONLY intended use was to coat the cylinder on the initial start up. It is NOT baked on if you took a NEW (FORGED ONLY) Piston and sprayed it with carb cleaner the graphite would come off. Our hyperutechtic pistons have the baked on graphite coated that is permenant.
We thought that the graphite spray would be a nice touch to the piston. Yes we did have input from some reputable engine builders. |
Now thats what I'm talking about. Cool. |
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kekonaiii
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2002
Posts: 406
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I have gotten many emails and I have answered all of them, but I want to make it clear that I am putting no blame on anyone and we are doing everything within our power to get to the bottom of this. It takes time to get things done. I am sorry for those of you that have had an issue with the Forged Pistons.
I have talked to Thomas in length and we have sent a few of the pistons out new and broken to get tested for the strength of the metal. All this will tell us is that the metal is consistant with what it is claimed to be.
We are also checking with the factory to see if they did anything different in the stamping or machining.
Thus far I am told there was no difference. The graphite coating has nothing to do with anything. There is no way to tell from a used piston if it was the one with or without the graphite.
-The graphite was just the last step to be done. It is grapite spray that its ONLY intended use was to coat the cylinder on the initial start up. It is NOT baked on if you took a NEW (FORGED ONLY) Piston and sprayed it with carb cleaner the graphite would come off. Our hyperutechtic pistons have the baked on graphite coated that is permenant.
We thought that the graphite spray would be a nice touch to the piston. Yes we did have input from some reputable engine builders. |
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SRP1
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 4342
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| kekonaiii wrote: |
| I got that in my engine EASY, and it's only 180-200hp. !!?? |
$6000.... parts and labor... that's pretty easy to do. You want to see receipts?
I think if anyone that would be qualified on the cost of parts that would be me. No arguement on the cost of parts only the arguement of what his claim is. 6000.00 of useless parts. ACTUALLY I think it was 12000.00 of useless parts.....BUT even with his inflation of parts/labor could not reach his claim!!!! This is not what are here for BUT I have to address it since the DOOR was opened......
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| kekonaiii wrote: |
| hopefully one of the two moderators could come in and take out anything that has nothing to do with the discussion |
"I don't want to sort through the whole 15 pages of this thread..."
But let's "try" to stay on topic.[/quote]
Aw Glen I see that humour still sets in well with you, you are truly a gem here.. [/quote]
It seems to me coming in here and arguing about parts costs is a mute point, what is done is done, and buy arguing I think Kona is only throwing dirt back on top of himself while digging a bigger hole, $1000 or $6000 its in the past. What Troy and others had to pay to get there engines back together is unfortunate but that is the cost of racing, it will happen again, and engines do blow up.
What would be helpful for Kona is to post up informative past and present testing data that will help propel AA forward in the future and show that they are concerned with the quality of the product, and not just blowing smoke, at this point all I see is smoke.
Kona I feel as a business man you are doing AA an unjust cause by judging parts costs (which I feel you are out of touch with) instead of providing pertinent information regarding the legitimate questions of your customers.
Last edited by SRP1 on Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TroyG
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Nevada Texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Rebalance crank 250.00 Who charged you 250.00 to balance a crank |
The crank was sent to Bob DeMellow to have it straightened, polished and reheat treated.
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| Rods Scat 5.5 290.00 Scat comes with there own bolts |
I only use arp2000 rod bolts and was told by scat that if the bolts are not marked they are 8740's
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| Main bearings Kobys 60.00 Where would you buy Klobens for 60.00 |
I have a local parts house here in town and thats what they charge
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| Cam bearings Mahle 16.00 8.00 |
I have a local parts house here in town and thats what they charge
Your right I missed that one I pay 7.50 a set for the bearings , so 30.00 not 45.00
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| Weld and rebuild head 400.00 Weld and rebuild??? |
Weld the head, recut it , replace valves
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| Who did you give 2000.00 to for labor the build this longblock? |
I do my own work, but alot of the people that lost motors because of this failure had to pay to have there work done for them. And 40 hours for a long block is about right. These motors were not just throw togeather long blocks. You of all people should know how long it takes to build a race motor. There is alot more that goes into one of these motor ( It Takes Time )
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| Did you really pay 50.00 for pistons and 75.00 for cylinders or is this a mistype.... |
1 AA piston with valve pockets and 1 cylinder clearanced
Yes in our phone conversation you told me that you would sell me all the parts I needed to rebuild the new motor. That is the parts that you carried. You never offered to sell me my parts at cost or even at shop price.
As far as me being a very scorned person, You dang straight I am, I have lost a lot of money, parts and time because of a bad batch of pistons.
( Childish ) Yes I am, I like to play with my toys and when someone sells me a defective toy, that wont last more than a couple of hours of playing with it, yes Im going to throw a fit.
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| You don't see Mike Chambers up here acting out |
Well all I can say is Mike's mom and dad must have done a better job of raising him.
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| Controling your emotions , very obsessive person. |
Kona I am who I am, I do say whats on my mind and alot of people don't like people like me and thats OK, with me you know what you get, I don't care if I make the top ten list of best in america. I will do what ever it takes to help anyone in need and everyone around me will atest to that.
All I ask is that when you are posting new ads for your products just post the truth and don't inflat your products.
ie
( Best Production Pistons on the market ) ........
Taken from one of Kona's ads.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=352116
Since deleted .............................................................
I have never said that all your products are bad, What I have said is that there was a bad batch of pistons that were put out on the market and they have been causing problems. Are your products the best on the market, no. Are your products good aftermarket parts, probably. I have only used the 94mm pistons ( Twice ) and yes I had a problem with them. |
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KennyD.
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Rowlett, TX
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Troy, who charged you 2,000$ in labor? I hope it wasn't Barry?
_________________
1974 Super Beetle-turbocharged 1915-mine
1974 Thing-dads |
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Marty Staggs
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2003
Posts: 357
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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$2,000 labor???????
Thanks - my prices just went up!
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Marty |
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