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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12272
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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 Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| The pros didn't bleed your brakes correctly and there is still have air in the system. The pumping up the pedal is a dead give away of air. |
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kayakmaster
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2006
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: Disc brake upgrade front and rear. Brake pedal question? |
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Just finished having my Small car aftermarket brakes professionally installed and they look great. and they should soon provide excellent stopping power. Problem is, that my engage point on my brake pedal has dropped considerably. It feels that I almost have my foot to the floorboard before I feel the brakes grab. I couple quick pumps of the pedal and it feels more like normal but as soon as I got to brake again it the same issue. Are my larger calipers needing more fluid to go through the system thereby makeing me press further to move more fluid? Were my new brakes possibly not bled well enough? Might this issue go away as the system builds up more pressure? Imput please.
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Jack
'87 GL Syncro (conversion) |
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bmwmango
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2007
Posts: 74
Location: Bayonne NJ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: Wheels for Audi Big Brakes |
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Mike,
What wheels are you using with your Audi big brake upgrade?
_________________
1990 Westy converted to a Syncro Westy
2009 BMW R1200GS
1990 BMW K75
1986 BMW K75 Parts (Deer 1, Beemer 0) |
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Mikees86TransSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Philly PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Carriers were included. I purchased allparts from www.rockauto.com, parts are here next day, and the prices are really good.
I will be starting my rear brake conversion to Disk. There is another really good thread on this now, I just can't get myself to use spacers in the rotors. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: caliper hangers |
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Mike,
Nice work.
One question, were the hangers included with the calipers when you purchased them or did you have to find them on your own.
dylan |
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udarlag
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: VW syncro motor fan |
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| Why after I change new motor fan it still makes noise when is on? Thank you! |
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| TT carrier 8N0-615-125, A8 disc 312mm 8D0-615-301J. I got this from an Audi site as an upgrate to 5000. Therefore the same mod to the carrier should put this massive rotor on a syncro,if you can fit it in the rim, my 303mm just fits my 16" rim. |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5524
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Sodo wrote: |
However, in this case, the main concern is not thread strength, but if the bolt can keep its tightness. I don't think there is much stretch in a big bolt like that, therefore I would use loctite (blue) to be sure it stays tight....... |
I guess I should have been more clear about what I meant. When I said "thread strength", I meant the threads in the caliper carrier not being strong enough to allow the the bolt to be torqued (strecthed) enough to keep the bolt tight without failure (or at least radical distortion of the threads).
If your comfortable with it, cool!
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Mikees86TransSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Philly PA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Pleasecheck again, the G60 caliper has two pistons in each, however the pistons measure 36mm and 44mm each |
Oops - you are absolutely correct.
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| What are the odds this conversion would also work on a 2wd? |
It won't due to 1 pc front hub/rotor on 2wd Vanagons.
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| (Regarding 15% lost side threads)...However, in this case, the main concern is not thread strength, but if the bolt can keep its tightness. |
That is my opinion exactly - the metal is all strong enough, just needs to be tight, and this "stays" better than a nut on the end IN MY OPINION (as in I don't want to argue)
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| By the way this whole set up you desribed is being sold on e-bay by someone regularly, starting bid is 500$, with a buy it now of 550$. All work ,mods done , just bolt it on. |
That was me - there was no interest shown, and, at $500, it just didn't pay for the time involved |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2986
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| magician wrote: |
| Great conversion. I am recently back into a T3. What are the odds this conversion would also work on a 2wd? |
It will work on a 2WD Vanagon as long as you can get ahold of a pair of South African front hubs. They resemble the Syncro hubs, but are of course free wheeling hubs with conventional bearings. It is possible to get a machinist to machine down the center section of a standard 2WD rotor into a seperate hub. However, it is hard to find a machinist who will do this from what I've heard.
David |
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Mikees86TransSyncro wrote: |
Answering questions -
1. No This will not work with 14 inch rims - 15 inch minimum
2. Diameter of new caliper pistons is 40mm X 2 pistons |
Pleasecheck again, the G60 caliper has two pistons in each, however the pistons measure 36mm and 44mm each. Two different size pistons per caliper. There is even a variation of this caliper, different part number but the smaller piston and larger piston is reversed on the same side . Audi did this , if i remember correctly for the S4, where the caliper is mounted towards the front as opposed to the rear, they found that this cured a squeek when they used the original caliper in the new position.
You want bigger brakes for you set up, using you same system replace the caliper carriers with TT carriers and install a larger rotor. Don't recall the model of rotor but the set up involves exactly what you just did.
I spent a lot of time researching Audi brakes before I made my 2wd set up.
By the way this whole set up you desribed is being sold on e-bay by someone regularly, starting bid is 500$, with a buy it now of 550$. All work ,mods done , just bolt it on. |
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magician
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2007
Posts: 95
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Great conversion. I am recently back into a T3. What are the odds this conversion would also work on a 2wd?
_________________
04 R32 | 85 Cabrio | 79 Rabbit | 91 T3 Carat Auto
'00 Jetta TDI (sold)| 91 Cabrio (sold) | 81 Rabbit diesel (sold)| 87 T3 GL (sold) | 91 T3 Carat 4sp (sold) |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10600
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikees86TransSyncro wrote: |
NOTE - With this method, there is an area in each new hole where the will be NO THREADS. We reviewed this, and found that approximately 15-18% of the circumfrence would have no threads. (there is a little "moon" of the old hole on the side of the new hole)
On speaking with metal guys I trust, they advised that this would be stronger than drilling holes, no threads & using a nut/washer (as shown elsewhere on this forum) so I trusted the experts. |
I agree with Chris that a nut is probably stronger. But my opinion is that it will be plenty strong with those big finethread bolts. If the bolt tightens to full recommended torque and comes up to torque abruptly, I think you can be confident you're getting full strength out of it.
FYI, Suprisingly a typical bolt+nut (not a finethread) provides full static strength in tension with only 3 threads engagement. Threads are strong in static tension. Typically you want about 6 threads minimum to reduce the friction, and in bolts that get 'exercise' (lugs etc - off/on/off/on/off/on) you want more than 6 ---> most lugs are lots, like at least 12 threads. You might conclude that I am full of lugnuts  that might be the case!
However, in this case, the main concern is not thread strength, but if the bolt can keep its tightness. I don't think there is much stretch in a big bolt like that, therefore I would use loctite (blue) to be sure it stays tight....... And on the other side, I'm pretty sure these would let you know if they got loose, the calipers would make some racket or scrape the disc/wheel they won't just fall off.
Tom
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5524
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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That all looks great. Thanks for sharing it with us.
I do have one area of concern though.
| Mikees86TransSyncro wrote: |
NOTE - With this method, there is an area in each new hole where the will be NO THREADS. We reviewed this, and found that approximately 15-18% of the circumfrence would have no threads. (there is a little "moon" of the old hole on the side of the new hole)
On speaking with metal guys I trust, they advised that this would be stronger tan drilling holes, no threads & using a nut/washer (as shown elsewhere on this forum) so I trusted the experts. |
Provided that the fasteners are of equal quality and used in the correct manor (proper length of non-threaded shank used), it is physically impossible for a threaded hole that has 15-18% of it's threads missing to be as strong as a bolt and nut used in a non-threaded hole. I personally would not be comfortable using a component in a braking system that had 15-18% of the threads missing. This means that you have more than 15-18% grip strength missing at the threads due to the increased load imposed in the remaining threads.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Mikees86TransSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Philly PA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: ALSO - |
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What would I do differently? I would find a way to get the machining done first. Buy used caliper carriers for templates, hell new ones, anything. Only thing that held this project up was my trusty machinist.
Nothing else would be done differently - stops smooth, true, and strong. |
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Mikees86TransSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Philly PA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Finally -
OK - The old caliper carriers, the old bolts, and the new Audi caliper carriers - bring them ALL down to a competent machine shop. The machine shop will use the old caliper carriers as templates for the hole spacing.
My machine shop is great - they also were more than happy to thread the new holes so the old VW bolts would work. NOTE - With this method, there is an area in each new hole where the will be NO THREADS. We reviewed this, and found that approximately 15-18% of the circumfrence would have no threads. (there is a little "moon" of the old hole on the side of the new hole)
On speaking with metal guys I trust, they advised that this would be stronger tan drilling holes, no threads & using a nut/washer (as shown elsewhere on this forum) so I trusted the experts.
So we received our caliper carriers back - I wanted to plate them, or poweder coat, because I hate rusty hardware. The boss, however, had different ideas (the wife said "get the Go&& DAM%67 car back on the road or so help me GOD I'll rip your %^&*()_ off!. Or something like that. So we decided to just get the whole thing back together.
The caliper carriers have a little too much metal on the mounting face, which will cause interference when bolting this together. The GOOD news is that the carrier almost shows you exactly what / where needs to be taken off. No loss in strength, and takes 3 minutes with a good grinder.
BEFORE
AFTER
Brake pads are great big meaty mothers - very impressive. They have the sensor wire attached to one pad of each set, just snip them off.
I had one-piece solid spacers made, 8mm thick, same bolt-hole spacing. Did not like the idea of using washers or two spacers per caliper. Some grinding IS required to be able to wrap it around the suspension.
Really, from there, it is just a matter of bolting it all together.
The brake line I used the same mounting bracket on the suspension, and cut a new metal brake line maybe 3 inches long to connect the whole setup.
Bleeding was a breeze - open the breathers, fill up the res, and wait till it pours out clear.
Finished Product -
CONCLUSION? Would I do it again?
Cost? Maybe $400 bucks. Not an issue
Results? HOLY MOLY!! THAT is what brakes are supposed to feel like. Let me put it this way - I was planning on doing the rear brakes in a disk conversion next. With these up front, I don't feel I need rear brakes AT ALL! Yeah, well worth it.
I hope this was helpful to someone - if it was helpful, please let me know. If it sucked, you can let me know too, but I won't care.
I am doing the rear disk brake conversion next - any suggestions or improvements over this project for the next one would be appreciated.
MJP - 9/18/2007 |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2986
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| kpbo wrote: |
Thanks for posting this--I'm seriously considering the same upgrade in my Syncro and this info is really helpful.
Incidentally, do you [or anyone] happen to know if these brakes will fit behind the commonly used Audi 5000 '6-spoke' alloy wheels (15x6, ET45)?
Thanks, and keep the updates coming! |
If you're talking about the standard Audi 5000 Turbo wheel, yes they do fit, but it's best to use Turbo wheels from 1986-1988. The earlier ones look the same but they were made to fit around the earlier G54 calipers. They do clear these G60s, but only by about 1.5 mm at the closest point.
David |
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kpbo
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting this--I'm seriously considering the same upgrade in my Syncro and this info is really helpful.
Incidentally, do you [or anyone] happen to know if these brakes will fit behind the commonly used Audi 5000 '6-spoke' alloy wheels (15x6, ET45)?
Thanks, and keep the updates coming! |
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Mikees86TransSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Philly PA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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OK - sorry for the delay - I took apart the right front end of my syncro - found the ball joints were bad. Took it apart, waited for parts, removed some undercoating, found rust, got far too involved with repairing rust, removing undercoat (which is close to impossible) planned on replacing CVs, boots, rubber, etc.
Wife came out in the garage and said "perhaps, Michael, you may wish to consider the pros & cons of simply completing the vehicle to make it driveable, as this is your only car. And I love you for all your hard work"
Well, that was what she meant to say. What she actually said was much shorter, and much, uh, meaner.
I purchased a 65 Nissan Patrol a few years ago. I parked it in my garage one weekend to "do a few fixes". 3 years later, here it is;
So she has a point.
I replaced the upper & lower ball joints, re-packed the bearings (purchased replacement, found it was not yet needed), replaced tie rod ends, painted, cleaned & removed undercoating.
I purchased upper control arm bushings, but found they were not really needed.
I have a machine shop I always use because they are quick. Of course they don't have the modified caliper carriers done yet. I'll post again tomorrow when they are done.
(Note - yes, that is carpet on my garage floor. Not the cheap stuff, either. Try it - next time you replace the carpet in your home, keep the old stuff & put it in the garage - you will wonder how you went so long without it.
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mtac
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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mikee,
nice post
were you going to continue?
show the install?
_________________
1987 Syncro Westy
"Bad roads bring GOOD people... Good roads bring all kinds of people!" |
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