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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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 Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: Re: argg and when i was all set to get 14in |
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| VWDruid wrote: |
i found them and got them on the bus i feel a bit safer only got two atm, man there not much room from the side wall to the tier but think it will be fine till i start trying some dune bugging 
set me back $270.35 with all the work for 2 I'll wait for them to brake in some and to billed up some $$, going to look for some junk yard seat belts to
make it more come fey. thanks agen .
what about V6? |
I would think that US$270·35 was quite cheap for two 195/70 R15C tyres, which is only about £70 each!
I am not sure about the available rear wheel-arch clearance, on a 1968~71 VW Type 2, but your apparent lack of available clearance might be more attributable to your "choice" of wheel offset, rather than the wheel & tyre size!?! To the best of my recall, the factory-stock 1968~70 VW Type 2 wheels, have an offset of 45 mm, whilst those of the 1971~79 VW Type 2 wheels, have an offset of 39 mm.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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VWDruid
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 1192
Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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i found them and got them on the bus i feel a bit safer only got two atm, man there not much room from the side wall to the tier but think it will be fine till i start trying some dune bugging
set me back $270.35 with all the work for 2 I'll wait for them to brake in some and to billed up some $$, going to look for some junk yard seat belts to
make it more come fey. thanks agen .
what about V6? |
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theizzardking
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| i`m still baffled by the v6 in a 1970 bus? |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: Re: argg and when i was all set to get 14in |
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| VWDruid wrote: |
| Quote: |
| you are running with grossly under-rated tyres on |
aye i got that part, one of the first thing i did after reading the tire sticky was look what lode bearing tire fit on a 15in rim... nothing, so now im looking for some stock or these 16 in rims are intriguing. I may just risk a 50 mil drive to buy some if i dont get any local bytes for a trade.
just looked up to see what yr Bug these will fit to repost my ad, look like 61 to 67.. I'm not giving them up to a bus owner.
Tyvm Skeet |
| NASkeet wrote: |
| Assuming your 15 inch wheels are 5½~6 inches wide, 195/70 R15C tyres (virtually identical, external circumference, to that of 185 R14C tyres), as used on the 1993~2003 VW Eurovan, would be a better choice. |
As I previously indicated, the 195/70 R15C tyres, as used on the 1993~2003 VW Eurovan, have a more than adequate load rating, for the 1968~79 VW 1600 & 17/18/2000 Type 2s! 
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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VWDruid
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 1192
Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| you are running with grossly under-rated tyres on |
aye i got that part, one of the first thing i did after reading the tire sticky was look what lode bearing tire fit on a 15in rim... nothing, so now im looking for some stock or these 16 in rims are intriguing. I may just risk a 50 mil drive to buy some if i dont get any local bytes for a trade.
just looked up to see what yr Bug these will fit to repost my ad, look like 61 to 67.. I'm not giving them up to a bus owner.
Tyvm Skeet |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: Re: argg and when i was all set to get 14in |
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| VWDruid wrote: |
I have 15 on my 70 westy atm and wanted to get the stock or stockish 14in, now Im wondering if i can use 16in with out moding my back end how wide can you go on stock 14in vs the 16in? may be this has been explained in the tier sticky but my dyslexia kicks in with seeing all the # going around, about # this what i have in the back dunlop 165 r 15 86s... is that spelled right?
any way they are narrow and it's scary to drive over the Bay bridge in a crosswind, should i post this in The Tire Sticky? |
If the 86 of 165 R15 86, refers to the tyre's load index, then you are running with grossly under-rated tyres on your 1970 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia campervan. They should have a minimum load index of 95.
Assuming your 15 inch wheels are 5½~6 inches wide, 195/70 R15C tyres (virtually identical, external circumference, to that of 185 R14C tyres), as used on the 1993~2003 VW Eurovan, would be a better choice.
I'm not sure what maximum width of rear tyres, one can use on a 1970 VW "1600" Type 2, but 195/65 R16C tyres on 16 x 6 inch wheel rims, would probably be okay, with a slightly larger external circumference, to that of 185 R14C tyres.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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volksterii
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 425
Location: San Diego CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Deron,
Those are the rims that are on your bus now, correct? They seem to fit good. I did not realize that they were that big.
John, your neighbor around the block.
_________________
71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp. |
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VWDruid
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 1192
Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: argg and when i was all set to get 14in |
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I have 15 on my 70 westy atm and wanted to get the stock or stockish 14in, now Im wondering if i can use 16in with out moding my back end how wide can you go on stock 14in vs the 16in? may be this has been explained in the tier sticky but my dyslexia kicks in with seeing all the # going around, about # this what i have in the back dunlop 165 r 15 86s... is that spelled right?
any way they are narrow and it's scary to drive over the Bay bridge in a crosswind, should i post this in The Tire Sticky? |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: Fine-tuning overall gearing for big-engined VW Type 2s |
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| deronmoped wrote: |
Well I have been working on installing new tires and wheels on my 70 Bus. I'm doing this so I can get a better gear ratio for my 3.8 liter V6. I picked up some Audi 16" rims, went to the junk yard and got some stub axles, hubs and drums for the rear. Got some P235/70R16 tires installed on the rims. Installed everything and man these tires are as wide as you can go. Have maybe 3/8" on the outside and all most nothing on the inside. The rims had pretty much the perfect offset. Had to make a couple of spacers (.020) for the hubs as it was either that or get the backing plates off a newer Bus, this made it so the drums did not rub on the brake shoes and the backing plates and also moved the tire out so it did not rub on the inside.
The Bus drives better then before, even with the tranny built with tall gears, first was still too low and it pulled more RPM's then I wanted on the freeway, got rid of some of the sway I had in the rear. Running the tires at 36 PSI but I can go as high as 44 PSI, going to try different pressures to see how it rides.
Deron. |
Running the tyres at reduced pressures, will reduce their effective load rating. The load rating quoted on the sidewall of the tyres, corresponds to a particular quoted inflation pressure, which for LT235/70 R16C tyres, would probably be circa 65~70 psi.
When you speak of the transaxle being built with tall gears, what ratios for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & final drive, are you actually using and in which transaxle; the original one from the 1970 VW 1600 Type 2 or perhaps the 1976~79 VW 2000 Type 2?
I suspect you are probably already using the 0.82 4th gear ratio in conjunction with the 2·0 litre engine's 4·5714 final drive ratio. Some 5-speed Vanagon transaxles, use a 0·77 5th gear ratio and there are various final-drive ratios, originating from VW Type 2 and VW 411/412 automatic transaxles, which it might be possible to substitute.
VW 1700 Type 2, automatic transaxle final-drive ratio – 4·4545 : 1
VW 1800 Type 2, automatic transaxle final-drive ratio – 4·3636 : 1
VW 2000 Type 2, automatic transaxle final-drive ratio – don't know!
VW 411/412 (post-July 1970), automatic transaxle final-drive ratio – 3·91 : 1
VW 411 (pre-August 1970), automatic transaxle final-drive ratio – 3·67 : 1
I suspect, that if practical to substitute one of these, then an automatic transaxle final-drive ratio, would probably give you the overall gearing you require, without resorting to grossly oversized tyres.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: 1968~70 VW Type 2, 8½ x 15 inch wheels! |
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| myrusty69panel wrote: |
| I've got some 8.5 x15 rims and was wondering if you can offer up some advice as to how I can adapt them to my stock 69 bus |
I suspect that 8½ inch wide wheel rims, would be far too wide for your VW Type 2!
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: 1971~79 VW Type 2, 16 inch wheels & tyres |
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Refer to the following link, for other discussions about 16 inch wheels & tyres, for the 1971~79 VW Type 2:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=232663
Tyre sizes 195/65 R16, 205/65 R16, 215/65 R16, 225/65 R16, in commercial-van & light-truck load ratings, are readily available, here in Great Britain, having seen them on a few relatively modern vehicles. Here are a few examples I have noted during the past couple of weeks, including typical load & speed ratings:
195/65 R16C 100/98T – external circumference 2073·1 mm (+ 1·27% larger than 185 R14)
Vauxhall Vivaro & Renault Trafic
205/65 R16C 103/101T or 107/105T – external circumference 2113·9 mm (+ 3·27% larger than 185 R14)
Vauxhall Vivaro, Ford Tourneo, Mercedes Vito & VW Eurovan T5
215/65 R16C 112/110R – external circumference 2154·8 mm (+ 5·26% larger than 185 R14)
Renault Master
225/65 R16C 109/107T – external circumference 2195·6 mm (+ 7·26% larger than 185 R14)
Vauxhall Movano
235/65 R16C 115/113T – external circumference 2236·4 mm (+ 9·25% larger than 185 R14)
I am not sure on which vehicle this van & light-truck tyre is used, but I found it listed on the British website, for Continental branded tyres.
16 inch wheels with 65-series tyres, are becoming increasingly common on commercial vans & light trucks and I suspect these will be the norm in the not too distant future. I have also come across at least one 75-series van & light-truck tyre size, as follows:
215/75 R16C 8PR 113/111R @ 69 psi – external circumference 2289·9 mm (+ 11·86% larger than 185 R14)
2003 Citroën Relay
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Stuffing the widest tires |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
You might be OK running a 002 transmission like Nigel is in his 73 bus, but a later model 091 might be a big problem.
I will bet that his little 1600 engine has to work hard just to move down the road. Be glad you are not driving it across Wyoming with a 30 mph headwind. |
That's one of several reasons why I have chosen to substitute a a hybrid, 1911 cc, VW 17/1800 Type 2 & 4 engine (1971 VW 411LE, WO-series engine's bottom end, with modified 1974~74 VW 1800 Type 2 cylinder heads and 96 mm bore, NPR cylinder barrels & flat-crown pistons, etcetera ad nauseum); possibly using the VW 411's Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection system.
At the moment, I have a factory-stock, 1974 VW 1800 Type 2 transaxle, but ideally I would like to find a way of using a British specification, 1983~92 VW 1900 Vanagon, 5-speed transaxle, which gives about 20·5 MPH per 1000 engine RPM (equates to circa 3400 RPM @ 70 MPH), with 185 R14 tyres.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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myrusty69panel
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| I've got some 8.5 x15 rims and was wondering if you can offer up some advice as to how I can adapt them to my stock 69 bus |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
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More important than the speed issue, is the amount of additional load the oversized diameter tires and the "gearing up" of the drive train would have on the cylinder head temperatures.
You might be OK running a 002 transmission like Nigel is in his 73 bus, but a later model 091 might be a big problem.
I will bet that his little 1600 engine has to work hard just to move down the road. Be glad you are not driving it across Wyoming with a 30 mph headwind. |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Stuffing the widest tires |
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| Rick73Super wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
| your speedometer-indicated speed will read lower and local statutes might render your speedometer illegal! |
Does the constabulary actually care about these thing across the pond? |
Whether they do or they don't, one doesn't have to worry about being caught, if one doesn't flaut the law!
The police certainly care about speeding here and there are numerous fixed and portable speed cameras, in urban and rural areas; resulting in millions of pounds Sterling in revenue from speeding fines.
One also receives endorcements and penalty points on one's driving licence, which will result in a one year's driving ban, when 12 points have accummulated. In some cases, drivers have exceeded the speed limit, whilst passing sufficient number of speed cameras during a single short journey, to result in a driving ban!
My driving licence has remained free & clean of endorcements and penalty points, since I passed my driving test, on 1st July 1974.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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Rick73Super
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2004
Posts: 1792
Location: Ocala FL 34481
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Stuffing the widest tires |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| your speedometer-indicted speed will read lower and local statutes might render your speedometer illegal! |
Does the constabulary actually care about these thing across the pond? |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: Stuffing the widest tires |
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| barryman wrote: |
I ran the tire sizes that I could find here that would support the weight restrictions for a bus in the tire size calculator and it actually gives you a good indication of how far off the speed would be. I considered painting a spare speedometer I have with new markings to match the new tire size.
I'm also going to install blue LED's in the dash...we'll see how that goes. |
Although I didn't previously mention them, there are also some other considerations, as follows:
The spare wheel or wheels, need to have approximately the same rolling circumference as your day-to-day road wheels; preferably to within ± 2%.
Personally, I like to have spare wheels which are identical to my day-to-day road wheels, so that I can rotate them and replace a complete set of five or six tyres at once. It also ensures predictable handling characteristics.
Assuming one still wishes to carry one of one's spare wheels, in the spare-wheel well (i.e. under front cab seats or recessed into the rear engine deck), then the wheel & tyre combination needs to be compatible with regard to width and diameter.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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barryman
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 200
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I ran the tire sizes that I could find here that would support the weight restrictions for a bus in the tire size calculator and it actually gives you a good indication of how far off the speed would be. I considered painting a spare speedometer I have with new markings to match the new tire size.
I'm also going to install blue LED's in the dash...we'll see how that goes. |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Stuffing the widest tires |
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| deronmoped wrote: |
Well I have been working on installing new tires and wheels on my 70 Bus. I'm doing this so I can get a better gear ratio for my 3.8 liter V6. I picked up some Audi 16" rims, went to the junk yard and got some stub axles, hubs and drums for the rear. Got some P235/70R16 tires installed on the rims. Installed everything and man these tires are as wide as you can go. Have maybe 3/8" on the outside and all most nothing on the inside. The rims had pretty much the perfect offset. Had to make a couple of spacers (.020) for the hubs as it was either that or get the backing plates off a newer Bus, this made it so the drums did not rub on the brake shoes and the backing plates and also moved the tire out so it did not rub on the inside.
The Bus drives better then before, even with the tranny built with tall gears, first was still too low and it pulled more RPM's then I wanted on the freeway, got rid of some of the sway I had in the rear. Running the tires at 36 PSI but I can go as high as 44 PSI, going to try different pressures to see how it rides.
With the correct offset you can cram some pretty big tires in the wheel wells, these are like 9.5" wide and 29" tall. You can go taller. To go wider you would have to flare the wheel well with more offset to the outside.
The tires are rated for 2,000 Lbs, are designed for SUV's, light duty trucks, small vans.
In general, does anyone know if just going from a smaller tire to a larger tire ups the load capacity?
Now to tackle the front.
Deron. |
If you are also significantly increasing, the rolling circumference of your front tyres, do not forget that the speedometer calibration will change, such that for a given road speed, your speedometer-indicated speed will read lower and local statutes might render your speedometer illegal!
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk
Last edited by NASkeet on Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3206
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Stuffing the widest tires – 215/65 R16C |
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| barryman wrote: |
| I want to see pix of your wheels...I'm about to buy some Audi 5 spokes and 215.65.R16 tires rated at 1657lbs. Would like to see the engine too. |
In Great Britain & Europe, plus probably other countries, the 215/65 R16C sized tyre, is available as a van & light-truck type tyre, with a load index of something between 98 and 112, as fitted to modern Renault Master panel vans.
I for one will be interested to see how you fare, because I am also contemplating the future retro-fitment to my 1973 VW Type 2, 16 inch wheels, with either 195/65 R16C, 205/65 R16C, 215/65 R16C or 225/65 R16C van & light-truck type tyres, all of which are available in Great Britain & Europe.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk
Last edited by NASkeet on Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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