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metahacker
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Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 890
Location: san.diego
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airkooledchris
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2720
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 Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Oil Breather Pressure Regulating Valve 022 115 303 A |
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Just buy them whenever you can, hoping for a good one (or two) to hang onto. Then you can tear open the bad ones all you want if you want to experiment.
When I realized mine went bad, I bought 10 off of someone here on thesamba. 5 of them were good, so I sold a few and kept the rest for hoarding. I think im down to a single spare now though, so don't bother asking. 
think about all of the parts guys here that work primarily in parting out busses, because they might have piles of them sitting around. Chris down in Oakland CA in the classifieds parts a lot of busses, id try him or some of the more well know used parts guys. (ken, Chris/BustedBus,etc) |
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smitty1976bus
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Cape Cod
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 Oil Breather Pressure Regulating Valve 022 115 303 A |
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Seconded! Just discovered mine is toast (or has been as long as I've had it) and just read through all these threads regarding these breathers (well, most of it, a lot went over my head  ) . This thread and:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=665820&start=40
Both have been dormant for a long time until yesterday and today. SGKent mentions:
I'm just too nervous to break mine open....
Watching these 2 threads closely  . |
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Squeeze Cheese
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2015
Posts: 274
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 Oil Breather Pressure Regulating Valve 022 115 303 A |
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Just dropping my name in the hat of this old thread so I will get an email if someone ever comes up with a solution. I can't believe WW or Bus Depot never pulled the trigger on it.
Count me in as a contributor if funding is needed to repop these oil breather valve diaphragms.
_________________
63' Ragtop Beetle
78' Dakota Beige Westy. “Skills” EJ25 engine conversion w/ zero mile factory short block, Delta 1000 cams, heater core and modified Gilmore AC. Matt Steedle 091 transaxle upgrade w/ 4.14 ring and pinion, Folts aluminum gear carrier. General Grabber AT2s on stock wheels. Solar powered aux battery w/ inverter. |
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Hoody
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Good luck Ray....I hope you can pull it off. Taking apart the original pcv valves is not difficult. It took me only one try to do it correctly. It just takes some time and a gentle touch. If the diaphragms can successfully be reproduced there will be hundreds of people that will benefit from this.The EGR valve is a bit more extensive due to the shape and size of the diaphragm. Without the diaphragm the EGR is dead in the water. I am fairly certain I have figured out how to deal with the pitting and corrosion that occurs in the body of the EGR valve. But without a working diaphragm for it....it's irrelevant. Good luck....hopefully when you have time we will hear what you have discovered. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23115
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Busstom wrote: |
Wow, this sounds interesting, I’d like to see this thing get going.
I think I’d also want a simple canister and an adapting method as well, as a total replacement. In a perfect world, it would have two halves, so that they’re cleanable and rebuildable (picture a vacuum advance canister with flanged halves, rather than crimped).
Obviously I’m not a stitch counter, but rather, a pragmatist. I think gluing these broken-apart housings is kludgy…but that’s just me. |
Maybe just a cool clamp or a bale that holds the existing one togther nicely.
Normally I would be the first to agree that somethjng like you suggested....a new design of enclosure....would be cool.
However.....as I have been learning and noting....the PCV system of L-jet....is fairly delicately balanced. Just enough vacuum bleed to work as PCV....but not enough to affect the working of the system.
Its pretty well designed. I dont know if I would screw with that without a ton of testing.
I do know that the existing diaphrams worked well....and their only fault is that they are pushing 40 years old.
If you just had a big bag of the original diaphrams you would be happy anyway...right?
The problem with these diaphrams is what they are exposed to, bow flexible they need to be and how exact in hardness and flexibility they need to be to not.....un-calibrate..... the system. They dont just need to generally work....they need to work correctly.
I mold dozens of parts per year (meaning, different designs)......but these two parts kicked my ass because of the material characteristics they needed to have.....(while using an affordable non-injection mold method of casting or pressure, casting).......which greatly limits or forces your hand to RTVs/resins that actually dont lend themselves well to a "molding" process.
I mean...damn....I have access to viton resins.....but the type of molds, heat and pressure required for most.....is beyond what I can do in my home shop.....and not in line enough with the factories I go into.....for me to slip something into the mix.
I do have a 4oz bottle of something interesting sitting on my desk. It may be ideal for something like this. Its a carbon filled, high temp, low heat curable, pourable elastomer resin designed for head gasket elastomer use.....however.....its the proprietary property of one of my customers.
If it works.....it would be scary to ask for more (multi billion, dollar company). I need to test it soon so it may be worth trying it on the PCV diaphram. Ray |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, this sounds interesting, I’d like to see this thing get going.
I think I’d also want a simple canister and an adapting method as well, as a total replacement. In a perfect world, it would have two halves, so that they’re cleanable and rebuildable (picture a vacuum advance canister with flanged halves, rather than crimped).
Obviously I’m not a stitch counter, but rather, a pragmatist. I think gluing these broken-apart housings is kludgy…but that’s just me. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23115
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Hoody wrote: |
| I sent Ray Greenwood a couple of pcv diaphragms to have molds made. Eventually I got them back. He told me that he made the molds and was going to take a shot at injecting them with silicone. But that was a loooong time ago and I am still waiting for him to return Steve's egr diaphragm which I also sent to him to have reproduced. Someone else on here made a mold and successfully reproduced a pcv diaphragm but I think he used red rtv which I am guessing failed during testing since there has not been any follow up. |
I still have not tried the PCV valve mold.
Simply put.....when working on these two parts....I was being a bit too much of a perfectionist. The RTVs I was using while they would be ideal for pressure molded parts like this (performance wise).....were far too aggressive to get out of the mold intact.
More avgressive mold materials are what damaged the original EGR valve part that you sent me. I still have a molded part in the last mold i made (metal cast mold)that has not been demolded.....for like 6 months. At first I was too afraid to demold it because it usually destroys the part. I startedctraveling and its still in my shop
At this point I will dissolve the mold around the part and send it back so others can take a shot at it. It really needs to be injection molded with Viton resin in a temporary (short run mold).
Its also possible......that if it can be modeled in inventor or solidworks (or they maycbe able to scan it).....one or more companies I know can CNC mill the EGR valve part from 70-80 duro epdm or viton (I dont know if that will be too hard or not).
I do have a mold of the PCV diaphram. In the past 6 months....working on other projects......I have found some new RTVs......thatcmay actually work well....especially since the PCV diaphram does not see the heat that tbe EGR valve will.
If the PCV diaphragm can operate with about 275F constant and peaks of 325F.....I have a pourable (huge difference from what I had been trying to use for the EGR part).....it can be made pretty easily....or at least use conventional molds.
I am also playing with some 750F flowable RTV on another application.....that has promise.
High performance silicone would be ideal for this part .....temp and chemical resistance. The issues are that those that have fuel vapor resistance are a b*tch to mold.....super high viscosity (defeats many mold relases)....or in a lot of cases .....really aggressive mold releases that may work can contaminate the curing process....and the RTV never cures.
Im really paranoid about making engine gaskets like this for other people. I want them to work either perfectly....or far better than the original because I am worried that a really premature material failure may destroy someone's engine.
Next week I can see how the pourable RTV works just to pressure pour a gasket in a poly mold....then dip in fuel and oil and throw it in the oven. Ray |
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Hoody
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Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| I sent Ray Greenwood a couple of pcv diaphragms to have molds made. Eventually I got them back. He told me that he made the molds and was going to take a shot at injecting them with silicone. But that was a loooong time ago and I am still waiting for him to return Steve's egr diaphragm which I also sent to him to have reproduced. Someone else on here made a mold and successfully reproduced a pcv diaphragm but I think he used red rtv which I am guessing failed during testing since there has not been any follow up. |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42447
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Usually what happens is someone wants it bad enough and they repop it. Then they sell them. Example is the set of EGR gaskets I used to sell. With postage etc it cost me about what I sell it for. The price is competitive. Yet some people will brag about coating an old piece of cardboard with RTV. That is what you are up against.
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:15 am Post subject: |
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How many Bays are out there...thousands?
I think this discussion ended in 2012 before I resurrected it...I can't believe someplace like Wolfsburg West hasn't worked on repopping these, or anybody for that matter.
That's why I keep questioning the criticality of (or lack of) this part, smog checks notwithstanding.
Thanks for chiming in guys (and/or gals). |
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:57 am Post subject: |
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If we had some real numbers to kick around a group buy at cost I would throw my hat in for 10-50 units depending on price.
Steve have you tried contacting the owner of the house of Ghia about reproducing these? I cannot remember his name but he does a lot of reproduction parts for the buses.
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www.headflowmasters.com |
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oscarsnapkin
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2013
Posts: 569
Location: Bucks County, PA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| We'd need about 300 - 500 orders for the whole unit to make it really financially feasible. |
300-500 doesn't really seem like that many considering the number of Buses out there. Is the problem getting that many people to commit? Wouldn't a place like Bus Depot buy a large portion of them? Count me in if you ever get it going.
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| FWIW if the cap came off someone already pried it apart. The seam is heat welded and it takes quite a bit to get them apart. |
I don't think so...the whole plastic part broke off in my hand, as I gave it several pounds of cranking force. Honestly, I don't know what the hell I was thinking, I'm generally not a hack like that.
Anyway, are all engines running basic breather boxes to atmosphere "vacuum cans," as you put it?
All fuel injection aside, what is different about the blow-by and crankcase pressures in a type IV as opposed to other engines? And if it's not, then what is it about the L-jet FI that requires it to breathe crankcase gases? |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42447
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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the purpose is to keep the case from becoming a giant vacuum can. You'll want to keep FI so you will need one of those. FWIW if the cap came off someone already pried it apart. The seam is heat welded and it takes quite a bit to get them apart. There are people who can make the diaphragms but the problem is cost. We'd need about 300 - 500 orders for the whole unit to make it really financially feasible. It would probably be better to redesign it in aluminum and made a top that screws on using a piece of special fabric. As for NOS ones, I know of only 4 that have been found in the last 7 years.
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Has there been any resolute consensus on the fix for this? A firm, certain replacement that works as the original, or a "fix" that's easy and undisputed by the legions of forum users?
Sorry to resurrect this, but hours of reading the history here has yielded no satisfying solution. Because, dig this: I go to look at a '75 Westy, for the second time...looking closer this time, and with plans to bring 'er down the ranch road onto paved roads so I can really decide to buy it.
Being a Bay/T-IV newb, what do I do? I reach into the engine compartment and grab on something that looks like a cap, and what do I do? I snap the fricking crankcase prv apart! On a vehicle I don't even own!!!
So I tell the dude, "Well, I'm basically gonna buy it anyway..." Yeah, no sh*t.
For what it's worth, it's smog-exempt here in California, and so the question is: Can I just plug the S-boot and run a typical Type 1 breather? And then adjust the FI accordingly?
I can't believe the related discussions are years old, and there is no post about a sure-fire fix...at least that I've been able to dig up. |
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Hello all. Am writting here today because I'm in severe desperate need for the oil breather pcv valve for my 79 FI bus and had no luck on the search. I'm currently in Cali knee deep in family issue caring for my grandfather 24/7 which has slowed, rather stopped my search. If anyone could please help I would be forever in your debt. Would gladly pay up to $500 bucks for a NOS part if someone has one or can make a connection to one please PM me. I sorry for posting here but am very desperate with zero energy to focus on this.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23115
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Sure...i would love to! No one ever contacted me. I don't drive L-jet so persionally I have no use for this diaphram...but I would be happy to repro a few if someone sends me one for a mold. Ray |
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webwalker
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006
Posts: 2803
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I would use high temp, medium viscosity pourable silicone. |
So Ray, did you ever decide to pursue this?
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Ed Ruth
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Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 343
Location: Bakersfield, California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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This short movie will show, if you watch until the end, that there is a slight vacuum inside the engine...at least at idle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jU_JOm4BPg
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