Ever done before? Porsche 924 or 944 engine in Vanagon?

[keithwwalker]

I will agree with you on one point, I saw a 1.8T conversion coupled to a 996 transmission in a Vanagon. It was somewhere on this forum or another. I forget whether they just bolted right up or not.

[Spinal Tap]

[Howesight]

I don't usually express opinions here, but I will on this one.

As much as I like the idea of oddball swaps and pretty engines, I have to say that the 924/944 8V engines were pretty low-tech engines with high tech engine management and high tech metallurgy to mitigate the basic design problems. Inline 4 cylinder engines at 2.5 litres and over need balance shafts to run at all smoothly. The balance shafts are really a patch. Kudos to Porsche for using the same line to manufacture the V8 and the 2.5 4-cylinder, but the compromise was - - vibration.

Pontiac tried this with their early 1960's Tempest with half a 326 V8. Bad move. It weighed almost as much as the V8 and shook badly, needing super soft motor mounts. (See? I really do like oddball stuff!)

VAG got it right with the 1.8T which is light years ahead in being small enough to run smoothly and being designed from the start to be turbocharged. It's also available by the thousands. Although I won't be using one (got my SVX on the engine stand and a later diesel swap in the planning stage) , I think it might just be the wave of the future for gasoline powered swaps.

Oh, did I mention how crazily expensive a part gets with the Porsche name on it?

I think this swap makes only a little more sense than using an Offenhauser 4.1 litre 4 cylinder - - it's also a beautiful engine to look at, shakes horribly, is very expensive and is so rare you can't get parts. The 924/944 engines belong in vintage 924's and 944's.

Save the Porsches!
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[TJC]

No, the 915 does not have a seperate bolt on bellhousing like the Vanagon trans...it is cast as part of the whole trans housing so an adaptor would need to be fabricated to use the 915 trans with the 944/968 engine.

Also the 915 used a cable operated clutch, so the trans would need to be converted to a hydraulically operated system...which is not that big of deal.

[keithwwalker]

So will a 915 transmission bolt to a Vanagon bellhousing, stock or SA?

[TJC]

I've also spent a fair amount of time researching the possibility of using a 944/968 based engine and have determined that it will require a fair amount of fabrication.

The earlier 924 Audi based engine may be able to use the SA bellhousing and other SA bits, but the 944/968 engine will not. The bellhousings used in the early 924 are completely different than the ones used for the 944/968. The bolt patterns at the back of the block are also different.

In the least, to use the 944/968 engine one would need to fabricate a bellhousing, or bellhousing adaptor to mate with the Vanagon or a Porsche (such as a 915) transmission. Then the issue of a flywheel must be addressed...possibly using a 944/968 center (for the bolt pattern on the crank) mated to a Vanagon or Porsche outer. Then you need to consider the input shaft, pilot bearing and other clutch related issues. As I mentioned before, the timing and speed sensors are mounted on the stock 944/968 bellhousings and the sender is in the flywheel, so this issue to needs to be addressed.

Then of course you have the engine mounting concerns, exhaust system, cooling system and so forth to deal with.

I have no doubt that given enough resources, this swap may be done and I believe it would be pretty spectacular. However after factoring in the time and cost I decided it wasn't for me. I narrowed my choices down to either using an early 924 Turbo engine or a 911 based engine. I have since picked up a 911 engine that I will be rebuilding and either use a Kennedy flywheel conversion so I may use the Vanagon transmission or I may pick up a 915 Porsche transmission. I feel that this is a fairly straightforward swap and since our Westy is aircooled I won't need to deal with the water cooling system issues. I have also been in touch with a person who has done this swap and he has been very helpful with his comments.

I was also in touch with a friend of mine in Germany who used to work for Porsche and had driven the B32 Porsche/Vanagons and was very enthusiastic about them...like chasing down BMWs at over 100 MPH!!!

Plus there's that wonderful 911 sound!

Good luck with your research and keep us posted.

[keithwwalker]

No, I'm not dead (yet). I have researched this on and off for a bit. Here is the measurement on the 968 engine, which I assume is similar to the 944:

Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 10:26:52 AM
Subject: Re: Porsche 968 16v dimensions?
Hello,
The 968 engine is 26" tall, 27" long, and 22" wide from mount to mount. Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Albert Broadfoot

I have doka, so guess what, I have essentially no height restriction that vans do.

Anyway, so the next question I have is, if the SA bell housing will fit a 924 engine, then somebody, and I mean somebody must have made an adapter to fit a 944 engine onto a 924 bellhousing!!

Then the next question is, since the stock Vanagon transmission is such crap, would you put a Porsche transmission in the back anyway? And is there an adapter to put a 944/968 block onto a 911 type transmission?

Madness yes, but this is a thread about putting Porsche stuff in our VW's, so why not ask the questions!

[taigagreen]

[TJC]

There are two speed sensors and a seperate TDC sensor.

[BenT Syncro]

[TJC]

Hi Ben!

I just did a quicky measurement and you'd probably need to allow for about 30" for the length of the engine.
There are two engine speed sensors on the bellhousing that would need to be accommodated and of course the flywheel one would use would need to be modified to send the signal to these sensors.

Hope this helps.
Tom

[BenT Syncro]

[TJC]

Well I've done some simple measurements on my 924S 2.5 engine and I'm inclined not to use this as a swap since it would involve a fair amount of fabrication to satisfy the length of the engine and accomodate the sensors on the bellhousing, etc. Too bad, as this family of Porsche engines are reliable (when properly maintained) and depending on the particuliar engine, produce great torque at suitable a RPM.

So, the easy way to have a watercooled inline Porsche engine transplant is to use the 2.0L 924 engine, ie. Audi 100, VW LT35, etc. This would need the SA bellhousing and engine mount system and it would be basically a bolt in set up.
So, does anyone have a SA bellhousing and motor mount bar?

Of course my other consideration is using a Porsche 911 based engine.

[BenT Syncro]

[TJC]

Yeah, I can relate to the perfect part, I'm the same way !

That's what I'm finding out, so I was also considering using the 924 Turbo engine...Please hold down the laughter and don't flame me too badly...but they can be made somewhat reliable and healthy...really! I mean the Vanagon isn't a daily driver anyway, I think we only put about a 1000 miles on it in the last year.

In any event, the quest goes on.

BenT, you've been PM'd!

[BenT Syncro]

[TJC]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Oops, yeah the B20 is the old pushrod design--also quite stout
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.

[Christopher Schimke]

[axeman]

well done, swedish power plat, 2316cc (b230) engine too how and where do i send the prize too?

simple and strong engines, a bit like me

neil
_________________
1957, 1200cc 30hp, big window, delux beetle, swedish modle, now living in france
1991 holdsworth villa 3, 2.1, uk van, now sold
1991 syncro doka uk van was 2.1 now B230, out with the b230 and in with a 1.8 20v, and 4 doors
1987 syncro westy was 1.6 jx now ej22