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87Enterprise
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: sodak
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 Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| I have been reading all of this and want to add my two cents. I have an 81 westy that I got new and still have. I got the gas heater and it is warmer then my water cooled 87 westy, can turn heat for 15 minutes without the engine running and has been easy to take care of. As far as the air cooled engine is, I drove it all over the country all kinds of hot and cold, added a oil presure and temp to watch the engine and never had many problems. When it came time for a rebuild, I then added 103 pistons and liner, cam , weber 44Idas, and oil cooler with headers and drove that all over the country. Bottom line here is that you take care of your van and your van will take care of you, I am sure that some will say an aircooled engine is old and out of date and you are welcome to your opinion, but this family has had aircooled bugs, buses, squarebacks since 1960's and had great service out of each one. P.S. If you really want to make someone mad ( this is in My younger years, wifes too) Build a 1800cc engine, with all the good stuff, and put into a 74 bug and let her show the "boys" the tail lights. |
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mightyart
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Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| el-cid wrote: |
| the mornings are pretty cool here in the mountains so it's good to have a heater. |
The heater isn't going to be the biggest problem if you live in the mountains.
No Vanagon is a speed demon up a hill, and the air cooled was the most underpowered so... |
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el-cid
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Anaconda, MT
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Cool, I'm looking further into the '83. Frankly I don't see myself using it much in the winter anyway, but even in the summer the mornings are pretty cool here in the mountains so it's good to have a heater. |
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foodeater
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Joined: July 13, 2007
Posts: 1318
Location: Newburgh, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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If its from a cold climate originally there is a good chance that it will have the optional gas burning heater, in which it will have great heat. Otherwise the heat will be adequate at best in winter for you. The A/C Vanagon that I had with the gas burning heater had the best heat of any car I've ever owned.
By the way my A/C van was an auto. It was totally fine, as long as you didnt want to cruise faster than (an indicated) 65 or so. In fact I really like the auto for around town cruising.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP |
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reluctantartist
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Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 1929
Location: Bloomington, IN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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If you are comfortable with type 4 motor you will be at home with your air-cooled westy. The heat system needs to have attention paid to it (especially since most have been neglected)...check the heat exchangers...make sure all the tubing is properly connected, etc. The heat takes a more time to develop than with modern cars but when the system is in place it works...you can replace the central tube with an insulated tubing to make the heat better ...there is a website somewhere that covers how to do this. My defogger works better on my vanagon than in the modern cars I have been in.
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1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them. |
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mhav
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2008
Posts: 129
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: |
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I have great heat in my 83. Yeah it's a little underpowered but aren't they all with a stock motor?
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83 westy |
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el-cid
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Anaconda, MT
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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I know this thread is pretty old but I have an air-cooled related question, but first some background.
I'm shopping for a Westy; I sat down and thought about all the vehicles I've went through in the past number of years and suddenly it was like pieces falling into place when I actually thought about a Westfalia. I have a full-sized motorhome I don't use, a number of other vehicles that have tried being campers but get terrible mileage and when I saw a Westy on every corner at the National Folk Festival in Butte a few weekends ago it hit me.
Anyhow, I've owned a Porsche 914 in the past with a Type 4 motor so I'm somewhat familair with the air-cooled concept. I've been looking and convinced myself I want an '87-'91 but I've found a pretty clean '83 at an attractive price. My biggest question is: how is the heaters in these things (big deal in Southwest Montana)? The heat exchangers in my 914 were rusted out so it had great CO2 laden heat... The first thing I'd do is crawl underneath it and poke around but is that a big concern? |
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airkooledchris
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Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2720
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| By today's standards they are severely outdated, being simultaneously inefficient, unreliable, expensive and weak.Andrew |
so exactly the same as the watercooled vanagon.
there ya have it.
doesn't matter which way you go. |
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OldSkoolVWLover
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Joined: May 14, 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Wow I am thinking this thread has convinced me, that when the time comes for the wife and I to get a Westy, it will be an AC vanagon (unless I find a better bang for my buck example in a WC).
We have been wanting an AC for a while but this may be an excuse to get the Westy and the AC VW all in one.
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EarlyWatercooled.org
00 MK3.5 Golf Vert__00 Turbo Beetle__81 Rabbit
We dream of the day we have a Westy! |
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ftp2leta
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Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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That hasn't been my experience at all. My experience has been that those who are particularly fond of air-cooled vw engines have had very little experience elsewhere and that those who have had any considerable experience with air-cooled AND more modern engines are NOT usually proponents of the air-cooled engines. I have extensive experience with air-cooled engines with several successful rebuilds of both the type-1 and type-4 variety and know them both in and out. 50 years ago they were remarkable engines. By today's standards they are severely outdated, being simultaneously inefficient, unreliable, expensive and weak.
Andrew |
Very interesting thread! Interesting post.
I don't have much to say stangly. I still maintain Vanagon air-cool engine, those are still running strong, i do my best to keep them alive. They are super easy to maintain, engine can be removed in 40 minutes. They have a strong FI system, it's just getting old sadly. Like i said above, power is ok. Of course i wouldn't change my van for one but i agree with Mightyart in many way. They can be a lot of fun for people on a certain budget. I kind of have a big smile on my face when i drive one. I use to say that they are the best of both generation, Vanagon space and simple air-cool technology. If parts where more easy for me i would do more.
To the OP, i think you had a lot of good comments to make the right decision.
Ben
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
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Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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RCB
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Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
Hurt feelings, your van should be happy, it's giving the finger to the world, just like mine.
"Who sez air cooleds suck, just look at me go!!"
Ben is just saying what all of us air cooled owners should know already.
All the contraversy is always about the engine, but what was the engine supposed to be in the first place?
It was a cheap Volkswagen engine, easy to build, easy to maintain.
You have a small family starting out, go buy one new, not alot of cash, give it regular maintainance, and you got transportation for a good 10-12 years.
Folkswagen good cheap transportation for us folks.
Now 25 years later people want a camper cheap and can't understand why it won't perform like a honda civic.
It also cracks me up when people buy parts and service based on price and can't figure out why the same thing breaks over again.
Now of course all we hear is the bad how about some good.
Easy to work on and maintain, everything is manual, everything is easy to reach and remove, if you have ever worked on new cars you'll know what I mean.
Lots of room to ad mods and whatever you want, lots of room behind the dash, big stereo, that kind of stuff.
It's a Vanagon Westfalia, very little differance in all the campers when you're parked, they all camp the same.
Aircooled Wesy in real good shape = $4,000-$6,000 Go westy $12,000
91 Westy in real good shape $8,000-$20,000 Go Westy arm & leg
It's kind of like flying to paris and staying in the same hotel.
Some fly regular jets some fly the concord, is the difference in ticket price worth it to you?
The sound, the motor makes the distinct air cooled sound, you can tell the people who know VWs by the way their head whips around when you drive down the street.
Cost of ownership is low, even if you spend to try to get the best parts you can it still is alot cheaper then owning a new car.
If you can get yours up and going correctly without giving up and saying they are all crap, you will belong to an elite club of people that understand what the last VW air cooleds were really about.
There's plenty more, I wasted to much time already and have things to do.
But really, believe what you like, the myths and some of the truths just keep costs down for me.  |
Hello Art, I was trying to be funny but I guess it didnt come across that way.
Madam Helga was kinda upset the VW folks would talk that way about AC Vanagons....but I cooled her down at the car wash.
Actually as far as me...Im very happy with my AC and with preventive maintenance, I plan on staying that way.
Helgas too much of a lady to flip the bird to anyone but both of us have seen the bird many a time especially when going up a steep hill, but now that were used to it, we just wave back and sport a happy smile.  |
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D Clymer
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Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2986
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| reluctantartist wrote: |
| My experience has been all the negative aircooled thought comes from people who really do not understand how it works. |
That hasn't been my experience at all. My experience has been that those who are particularly fond of air-cooled vw engines have had very little experience elsewhere and that those who have had any considerable experience with air-cooled AND more modern engines are NOT usually proponents of the air-cooled engines. I have extensive experience with air-cooled engines with several successful rebuilds of both the type-1 and type-4 variety and know them both in and out. 50 years ago they were remarkable engines. By today's standards they are severely outdated, being simultaneously inefficient, unreliable, expensive and weak.
Andrew |
I alternate between Audis and BMWs for my everyday cars, and I still have a fondness for VW air cooled engines. I think it all depends on what you are looking for in your Vanagon. If you are trying to have the most up to date, cutting edge engine powering your van, then an air cooled Type 4 is not the way to go. However, the fact still remains that the air cooled vans can give very good service if the performance and cooling limitations are understood. I think it's important not to overstate the shortcomings of the air cooled vans to the point where people are being informed that they are to be avoided at all costs.
David |
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Yellow Van
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Joined: December 23, 2008
Posts: 163
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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The whole van is severely outdated by today's standards. The engine is just it's most outdated part.
Honestly I would probably go for a mid 70's baywindow Westy or a Vanagon Westy with a GoWesty/Subaru/Zetec engine if I were to do it again but you will be spending a lot more upfront to get a good well sorted example of any of those.
In any case, none of these are a rational purchase. These vans aren't designed to be alive now. |
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?Waldo?
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Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10031
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| reluctantartist wrote: |
| My experience has been all the negative aircooled thought comes from people who really do not understand how it works. |
That hasn't been my experience at all. My experience has been that those who are particularly fond of air-cooled vw engines have had very little experience elsewhere and that those who have had any considerable experience with air-cooled AND more modern engines are NOT usually proponents of the air-cooled engines. I have extensive experience with air-cooled engines with several successful rebuilds of both the type-1 and type-4 variety and know them both in and out. 50 years ago they were remarkable engines. By today's standards they are severely outdated, being simultaneously inefficient, unreliable, expensive and weak.
Andrew |
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mightyart
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Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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I will let him tell you more, he will help you if you are a noob or expert.
http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=5824
This was april 13 this year, he helped me put in a tranny, now I know how to do it, know it was done right cause I watched and helped, and If it needs to be changed in a parking lot in NY, or CA, or wherever, I know how to make it happen, and quite painlessly, money well spent.
The blue and white bus is his (72 I think or there abouts) he drives it around the country coast to coast every year. |
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Yellow Van
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Joined: December 23, 2008
Posts: 163
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
Air cooled guys also have one asset, if they choose to use it.
That would be Colin the Itinerant air cooled mechanic.
If you aren't on his list for a yearly visit you are missing out on a valuable resource.
Aircooledchris knows what I mean.
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Tell me more about this Colin guy... |
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mightyart
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Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Air cooled guys also have one asset, if they choose to use it.
That would be Colin the Itinerant air cooled mechanic.
If you aren't on his list for a yearly visit you are missing out on a valuable resource.
Aircooledchris knows what I mean.
He also told me he would help(for a fee) any watercooled Vanagon owner, work on and understand their vehical better. |
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airkooledchris
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Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2720
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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yea, Aircooled Vanagon's are the WORST.
If you find any good ones for sale, PM me, or mightyart or mhav or reluctantartist or Yellowvan or 82westyman or ......
you get the idea.
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mhav
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Joined: July 01, 2008
Posts: 129
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I've got 101K and she still purrs. Hey getting there is half the fun, what's the rush?
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reluctantartist
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Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 1929
Location: Bloomington, IN
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Mighty Art for sticking up for us. My experience has been all the negative aircooled thought comes from people who really do not understand how it works. Mine will be a round probably longer than a lot of water cooled vehicles.
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1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them. |
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