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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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 Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you don't sue the mechanic, you sue the guy you gave the money to, the owner. That said, ANYTHING offered is a breath of fresh air. That's what comes from dealing local. These guys are your neighbors. Your kids go to school with theirs sometimes. (OP is from LABRADOR! everybody there is local, to a degree.)
Figuring out the cause of this fire will likely be very easy. Most anybody with a logical mind, scientific method and an hour could probably do it.
Burning copper wires look very different from arcing wires. About 3000 degrees different. The bigger problem is whether the arcing is causal.
It would be nice to determine the cause if only for the owner's peace of mind in future use of the vehicle.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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JBange
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2008
Posts: 37
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Williamtaylor33 wrote: |
Wait...what? Why does your mechanic think that this fire "may" be his fault? If he admits this is "his" fault. you shouldnt have to pay for squat.. |
It's one of those "ideal" vs. "realistic" situations. Ideally, the perpetrator should pay for everything, up to and including parts and labor to have another mechanic fix it. Realistically, the best you could get would be a small claims judgment you'd never see a dime of, given the marginal living most VW mechanics seem to make...
...or in this case, a decent mechanic willing to meet you half way and give his time, even if not also buy the parts.
_________________
John Bange
'90 Vanagon non-GL
'90 Vanagon GL |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10051
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think that after that kind of mess it would be extremely difficult to determine what the cause of the fire was one way or another. The fact that the mechanic is offering to take up any of the expense for the sake of good will is a very good deal for the original poster.
Andrew |
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Williamtaylor33
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 1545
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| pigottp wrote: |
well the good news is that my VW mechanic agrees this is an electrical fire that "may" be the result of improper installation. They're offering to redo a very messy and long rewiring job for free if I supply the parts. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Now to find the parts.....
! |
Wait...what? Why does your mechanic think that this fire "may" be his fault? If he admits this is "his" fault. you shouldnt have to pay for squat..
_________________
89 Bostig powered syncro westy |
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foodeater
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2007
Posts: 1318
Location: Newburgh, NY
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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You should contact these guys about parts.
http://www.foreignautosupply.com/
They have taken over the importation of the Tiico kits. the prices are slightly higher than they were when Peter was running things, but on the plus side you actually get the parts that you pay for. Also they've made improvements to some parts, like the exhaust headers.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10386
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the link to the Tiico group on Yahoo. Many years of posts and other info for members.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tiico/
Mark
| pigottp wrote: |
thanks for your insightful post Mark. The guy who installed the engine has been working on VW's most of his adult life starting in the German military. The installation is good. But it turns out another mechanic tried to fix the battery problem and he is to blame for this mess.
I wanted to get this Syncro to a Tiico installation specialist, but my waterboxer went and I live in a very remote location. So I had it done locally. When I get it fixed again I will take it straight to a specialist to check over the job. Until then I need help ordering replacement parts. Where is the this TIICO email support group? thanks again
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pigottp
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Labrador
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for your insightful post Mark. The guy who installed the engine has been working on VW's most of his adult life starting in the German military. The installation is good. But it turns out another mechanic tried to fix the battery problem and he is to blame for this mess.
I wanted to get this Syncro to a Tiico installation specialist, but my waterboxer went and I live in a very remote location. So I had it done locally. When I get it fixed again I will take it straight to a specialist to check over the job. Until then I need help ordering replacement parts. Where is the this TIICO email support group? thanks again
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
There is a long standing email support group for TIICO owners and people interested in the conversion. I have heard of several engine fires with them but mostly due to fuel system leaks. There were common installation errors by even professional shops that led to leaks and sometimes fires.
Your problem seems electrical in nature and it may have nothing directly to do with the conversion. Most of the vehicle wiring and even charging wiring is retained from the old engine configuration. It may be something that existed before or something done by a mechanic during or after. Most serious engine electrical fires don't stop just because the key turns off as the key switch has only a small role in the electricity moving around the engine compartment. Once a power wire melts it often shorts to other power wires and then turning off the key does nothing to stop the electricity from cooking things. For example that red alternator wire has power 100% of the time, key on or off. If it melts and shorts to something things will cook until the battery is dead.
Mark
| pigottp wrote: |
That's what I'm trying to figure out. From what I can tell the fuel system remains entirely intact and the flames were doused remarkably easily once the key was turned off and the fire extinguisher applied.
I'm not trying say anything all at. I'm wondering if there are others on samba who can share their experience with this tiico convernsion and hopefully pass on some advice on how to get back to happy and safe trails for my family.
| McVanagon wrote: |
| McVanagon wrote: |
That sucks! I'm glad you and your daughter are OK!
Was it a fuel fire, or an electrical fire? |
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pigottp
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Labrador
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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well the good news is that my VW mechanic agrees this is an electrical fire that "may" be the result of improper installation. They're offering to redo a very messy and long rewiring job for free if I supply the parts. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Now to find the parts.....
| r39o wrote: |
Harness is likely TOAST based on the above pictures. Not pretty.
Can you get the harness?
If not, looks like it is time to get a harness together from an early 90s Jetta.
If you are not VERY electrically inclined, I'd say you have a goner.
I have a degree in electrical engineering and I have fixed lots of stuff like that, but it is VERY time consuming.
GOOG LUCK! |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Harness is likely TOAST based on the above pictures. Not pretty.
Can you get the harness?
If not, looks like it is time to get a harness together from an early 90s Jetta.
If you are not VERY electrically inclined, I'd say you have a goner.
I have a degree in electrical engineering and I have fixed lots of stuff like that, but it is VERY time consuming.
GOOG LUCK!
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10497
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill W wrote: |
| Is that even a fuel fire? Looks all electricial_-what a mess. |
I agree. Something I posted about in response to OP's other post regarding this engine.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332795&start=40
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10386
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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There is a long standing email support group for TIICO owners and people interested in the conversion. I have heard of several engine fires with them but mostly due to fuel system leaks. There were common installation errors by even professional shops that led to leaks and sometimes fires.
Your problem seems electrical in nature and it may have nothing directly to do with the conversion. Most of the vehicle wiring and even charging wiring is retained from the old engine configuration. It may be something that existed before or something done by a mechanic during or after. Most serious engine electrical fires don't stop just because the key turns off as the key switch has only a small role in the electricity moving around the engine compartment. Once a power wire melts it often shorts to other power wires and then turning off the key does nothing to stop the electricity from cooking things. For example that red alternator wire has power 100% of the time, key on or off. If it melts and shorts to something things will cook until the battery is dead.
Mark
| pigottp wrote: |
That's what I'm trying to figure out. From what I can tell the fuel system remains entirely intact and the flames were doused remarkably easily once the key was turned off and the fire extinguisher applied.
I'm not trying say anything all at. I'm wondering if there are others on samba who can share their experience with this tiico convernsion and hopefully pass on some advice on how to get back to happy and safe trails for my family.
| McVanagon wrote: |
| McVanagon wrote: |
That sucks! I'm glad you and your daughter are OK!
Was it a fuel fire, or an electrical fire? |
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a914622
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 928
Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Iv got to agree It look electrical. With the mess of burn wire its hard to back track and figure out what grounded and to were. I would have to guess the hot wire to the coil or your alt wire got a ground and acted like a hot plate burner.
I had a smaller wire fire on the suby conver. It fryed the fuel pump wire. Luckly the power was cut with the key and there was no damage.
glad you have enough to rebuild.
jcl
_________________
87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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Robw_z
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 994
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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I pulled a Tiico kit from a junked Westy, obviously junked because the Tiico had caught fire. The one I pulled was pretty bad, the wiring and all the hoses were wayyyy gone, but the motor core and mounts all seem to be good.
-Rob |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3439
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Is that even a fuel fire? Looks all electricial_-what a mess.
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10497
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10497
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I modified the link, found a pic and reposted it below. I think OP was trying to post image of engine fire along with questions.
It may also be possible OP was "bumping" topic to the top though if so, likely should have done that with original post. IMO 
To the OP: with picasaweb, I right click on image, open in new window, then post that address (containing .jpg suffix) between image tags.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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pjrae
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Joshua Tree
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I liked the self quotations McVanagon, reminded me of Bob Dole |
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McVanagon
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern part of the Virginia
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
| What I mean is I don't understand why you quoted your first post, and the link to your pictures doesn't work |
There was somthing screwy with his first post. It was blank. I accidently quoted his blankness, and a ****load of text appeared in my post. When I previewed it, it was again blank.
I took the links out, and the text appeared. Odd. Must have been what he did to get his post to appear.
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'69 Mike
'85 GL
'87 Wolfsburg Hardtop |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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What I mean is I don't understand why you quoted your first post, and the link to your pictures doesn't work.
If this is what you wanted to ask "I'm wondering if there are others on samba who can share their experience with this tiico convernsion and hopefully pass on some advice on how to get back to happy and safe trails for my family"
Then start a post titled:
what is your experiance with tiico conversions? mine caught fire.
Or something like that.
and then tell what happened and ask what others think, and post your pictures.
If you don't know how to post pictures read this:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6
I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to help you find out what you want. |
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pigottp
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Labrador
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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That's what I'm trying to figure out. From what I can tell the fuel system remains entirely intact and the flames were doused remarkably easily once the key was turned off and the fire extinguisher applied.
I'm not trying say anything all at. I'm wondering if there are others on samba who can share their experience with this tiico convernsion and hopefully pass on some advice on how to get back to happy and safe trails for my family.
| McVanagon wrote: |
| McVanagon wrote: |
That sucks! I'm glad you and your daughter are OK!
Was it a fuel fire, or an electrical fire? |
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