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Zephyr_shreds
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Joined: July 15, 2019
Posts: 185
Location: Bakersfield
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Timwhy wrote: |
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crazyvwvanman Posted: Today 5:54 pm Post subject:
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You can have the panel display either battery. It all depends on how you wire up the relays. If you post a photo or 2 of your current relays I can probably tell you which wires to move where.
Mark
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Both the 86 and 85 posts are connected through a splice to the blue and the red/black wires respectively.
Thanks for the help!! I really appreciate it!!
Tim |
Can I use piggy backs on the fridge relay to connect the aux battery relay? Or do I splice the wires before the fridge relay? Ps, my 82 diesel camper doesn’t have the red/black wire from fuse panel so should I ground the 85s to the body?
Last edited by Zephyr_shreds on Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Colonel_Brown
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Joined: May 25, 2010
Posts: 115
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Bit of a threadjack here but there's lots of good info here that I want to add to. I have the same problem as Gauche1968 on my '84... I have an Aux battery is in my van with an isolator and one relay. Everything works for me from either the starter or aux as it should except for the LED panel.
Gauche1968: Did you get your kitchen equipment working?
Does anyone know which relay post should the kitchen wires for LEDs/fridge small and large reds(?) connect to in a ONE relay setup?
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'84 Vanagon GL (1.9L) - "Colonel Brown" |
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Gauche1968
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Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 1562
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
So I had the stock relay modified to charge the battery from directions I got from GoWesty. Here is what it looks like if it is stock. The first is the wire color and the second is the terminal number on the relay.
Wire - Terminal (stock)
1. Red/Blk - #85 (ground through starter solenoid)
2. Blue - #86 (ignition trigger)
3. Red from dash - #87 (outside) (Constant power)
4. Small red - #87 (middle) (from aux. fuse box)
5. Large red - #30 (from aux. fuse box)
Here’s what it should look like after you switch it to use an auxiliary battery with the directions I got:
Wire - Terminal (modified)
1. Red/Blk - #85 (ground through starter solenoid)
2. Blue - #86 (ignition trigger)
3. Red from dash - #30 (Constant power)
4. Small red - #87 (middle) (from aux. fuse box)
5. Large red - to positive on new aux. battery. (from aux. fuse box)
6. New Large red - #87 (from new aux. battery positive to relay)
So, when the ignition is on, power will go to the auxiliary battery for charging. When the ignition is off, the two circuits for the camping equipment will be powered off the auxiliary battery and isolated from the main battery. The camping light will need to be rewired to the aux. battery if you want along with any other loads. You also need to ground the new battery somewhere. Mine was grounded to the screw in the aux battery box that held the wire clip in. |
OK, so my kitchen equipment was dead. I rewired it to stock as per above to see if it work and it did. I then attempted to wire in an aux battery as per the above modified instructions, but no dice. I know the battery is good as it was my starting battery. Does anyone have any ideas about where the problem may lie?
Thanks!
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy |
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Timwhy
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4102
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Well, it worked!! Yippy!
My relays both have the 87 & 87a posts but for some reason it worked just fine.
Led panel is now showing my aux battery level and the relays are working just great at charging my aux battery. I put my voltmeter in a cig scocket and was getting a reading of 13.04v, while the van is running. Does this sound normal for charging?
Thanks again for all the replies!
Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
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Timwhy
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4102
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:13 am Post subject: |
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I think the point of not running the fridge off the aux battery, is that the battery will be toast quicker. The aux battery is for all the other stuff that do not suck up the juice from it, radio, light etc....
I haven't progressed as far with my fridge yet, but most people here seem to run theirs off propane. I have only had mine on 110 and it seems to cool very nicely. I've read in other post about the led panels' chips may be bad (dammaged) so I bought two new ones to install. My battery leds all work but my fridge led does not light up on 110, and I want to see if it will on 12v. Not sure if it will then either.
I downloaded Dogpilots' files and the Vanagon protraining shows all wiring diagrams. Very useful compared to the bentley, the fridge led only says that it is a propane led and nothing about 110 & 12v. Then again there have been people here that so they have an illuminated fridge on all 3 modes.
This morning I'll try Crazyvwvanmans' suggestion and see if the panel shows my aux battery level then I'll move onto the fridge chip and fridge led.
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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If the fridge is connected directly to the aux battery and the relay charges the aux battery when the van is running, aren't you doing both jobs with one relay while the engine is on?
One relay or two, they're both running off the alternator. Electrons don't care what path they travel. I guess I don't see the difference. the difference.
Ok, I see what you're doing. You're trying to NOT run the fridge on 12v unless the van is on. Then you need two relays. But if you do have an aux battery, that's the purpose for it I thought to run the fridge.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10497
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Because just the 1 relay can't do the aux battery charging job and the fridge 12 volts only while engine is running job at the same time. You need 2 relays to do the 2 jobs.
Mark
| PDXWesty wrote: |
I think that's just what I posted above. 
I don't know why you want to use two relays when one is all you need to accomplish what you're describing. |
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PDXWesty
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Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think that's just what I posted above.
I don't know why you want to use two relays when one is all you need to accomplish what you're describing.
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10497
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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It sound like yours are fine. The common fridge type has 2 pins 87 that are tied together so it doesn't matter which is which, they both connect to 30 when the relay is activated. The type with 87 and 87a are never connected together since the relay they are in connects 30-87a when off and switches it to 30-87 when activated.
Mark
| Timwhy wrote: |
Off hand I don't recall if they said 87a and 87 or not but they are both the same relay I bought at a local napa. Do you mean that both have to be the same or just the aux battery needs to be two 87's and not 87 & 87a?
Why would it make a difference? This is a great education process!!
Many thanks........Tim |
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Timwhy
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10497
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Simple enough to do what you wanted then. On the aux battery relay reverse the existing 2 wires on 30 and 87, so the main battery is on 30 and the aux battery is on one of the 87 pins. Then move the smaller red wire from fridge relay 87 to the other battery relay pin 87.
I am going on your say so that both relays are of the SAME 5 pin type. There are identical looking 5 pin relays with a very important difference. Instead of 2 pin 87s they have an 87 and 87a. If you used one of this type for the battery relay then my steps above won't work. t
Mark
| Timwhy wrote: |
| Quote: |
crazyvwvanman Posted: Today 5:54 pm Post subject:
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You can have the panel display either battery. It all depends on how you wire up the relays. If you post a photo or 2 of your current relays I can probably tell you which wires to move where.
Mark
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Basically here it is in a nutshell. Both relays are 5 post 30 amp relays.
Original relay wired like this: top 87 post to 12v constant from dash (red wire);middle 87 post to led panel (smaller red wire from camping fuse box);86 to starter (blue wire); 85 to starter ground (red/black wire); and 30 to fridge (large red from camping fuse box).
New aux battery relay.top 87 post to main battery; middle 87 not used; 86 post to starter(blue); 85 post to starter ground(red/black); and 30 to aux battery.
Both the 86 and 85 posts are connected through a splice to the blue and the red/black wires respectively.
Thanks for the help!! I really appreciate it!!
Tim |
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Timwhy
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4102
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
crazyvwvanman Posted: Today 5:54 pm Post subject:
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You can have the panel display either battery. It all depends on how you wire up the relays. If you post a photo or 2 of your current relays I can probably tell you which wires to move where.
Mark
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Basically here it is in a nutshell. Both relays are 5 post 30 amp relays.
Original relay wired like this: top 87 post to 12v constant from dash (red wire);middle 87 post to led panel (smaller red wire from camping fuse box);86 to starter (blue wire); 85 to starter ground (red/black wire); and 30 to fridge (large red from camping fuse box).
New aux battery relay.top 87 post to main battery; middle 87 not used; 86 post to starter(blue); 85 post to starter ground(red/black); and 30 to aux battery.
Both the 86 and 85 posts are connected through a splice to the blue and the red/black wires respectively.
Thanks for the help!! I really appreciate it!!
Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10497
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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You can have the panel display either battery. It all depends on how you wire up the relays. If you post a photo or 2 of your current relays I can probably tell you which wires to move where.
Mark
| Timwhy wrote: |
Tried something different tonight!
I want the led panel to be powered by my aux battery and the two relay setup I have it is not. Thought that if I disconnected the constant 12v power the light would go out but they didn't.
Leaving that 12v disconnected, I disconnected my main battery then the lights went out. My panel wire is connected to my new relay in the middle 87 post, but it has a direct feed from my main battery to charge my aux.
I thought that if I put the panel wire back on my original relay in the middle 87 post and ran a hot lead from my aux fuse box to the relay it would show the battery level of my aux battery. What I got was a whole lot of nothing. I think that my next attempt will be a hot lead from my aux + terminal to the original relay in the top 87 post and see if that works while the panel wire is connected to the origianl relay middle 87 post.
Can some one using a two relay setup check their install, to see if their panel is showing the aux or the main battery level. Simply test throw the switch and disconnect one of the batteries.
Many Thanks.....Tim |
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Timwhy
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4102
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Tried something different tonight!
I want the led panel to be powered by my aux battery and the two relay setup I have it is not. Thought that if I disconnected the constant 12v power the light would go out but they didn't.
Leaving that 12v disconnected, I disconnected my main battery then the lights went out. My panel wire is connected to my new relay in the middle 87 post, but it has a direct feed from my main battery to charge my aux.
I thought that if I put the panel wire back on my original relay in the middle 87 post and ran a hot lead from my aux fuse box to the relay it would show the battery level of my aux battery. What I got was a whole lot of nothing. I think that my next attempt will be a hot lead from my aux + terminal to the original relay in the top 87 post and see if that works while the panel wire is connected to the origianl relay middle 87 post.
Can some one using a two relay setup check their install, to see if their panel is showing the aux or the main battery level. Simply test throw the switch and disconnect one of the batteries.
Many Thanks.....Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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whafalia
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Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 685
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe if your led is reading the main battery you are also running your sink pump off the main battery. You can follow the 2 wires from the little fuse panel by the door to the relay and find out which one to pull to turn off the panel. You can then hook this one to the aux circuit if this is what you desire. I think it was the wire to the middle of the relay for on my 84. |
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Timwhy
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4102
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I would think that a switch between the battery and fridge would be a good thing if you can only isolate it when the van is running.
Diagram would be helpful!
Getting back to your led panel, if you did nothing to the original 12v power from the dash? Would that not be showing your main battery's power level and not the aux battery? The way I have mine hooked up with two relays, it still shows the level for the main battery.
Thanks for the replies!! Tim
| Quote: |
PDXWesty Posted: Today 8:30 am Post subject:
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I think you've misunderstood the wiring. With that wiring, the batteries are combined while driving and isolated when you are not driving. Both batteries will recieve a charge while driving because the relay closes. When you are not driving, the relay opens and the camping gear draws power from the auxilliary battery only. The main battery is then isolated so it doesn't draw down. Why do you need a switch for the fridge? What purpose does it serve? The led panel in this case measures the aux. battery voltage.
I'll get a diagram posted if that helps.
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_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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ccisco
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Joined: August 28, 2008
Posts: 212
Location: eugene
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: wiring |
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I could use the diagram; I'm about to hook up an aux in my 84 westy. It has the factory installed stuff....  |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:30 am Post subject: |
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I think you've misunderstood the wiring. With that wiring, the batteries are combined while driving and isolated when you are not driving. Both batteries will recieve a charge while driving because the relay closes. When you are not driving, the relay opens and the camping gear draws power from the auxilliary battery only. The main battery is then isolated so it doesn't draw down. Why do you need a switch for the fridge? What purpose does it serve? The led panel in this case measures the aux. battery voltage.
I'll get a diagram posted if that helps.
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Timwhy
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4102
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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PDXWesty, hey if it works for you that's great!
There is not switch between the battery and the fridge in your setup, and I think you'll find that your switch is only isolating your battery while the van is running because the switch is between the two batteries. I'd keep a close eye on your aux battery unless this is a daily driver.
Were you able to isolate your aux battery level using the LED panel on the stove or is it showing the main battery level?
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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In the wiring directions I posted, which were the same as what GoWesty does, the refer is connected directly to the aux. battery. When the van is running, the relay closes and provides power to the aux. battery and thus the refer. When the ignition is off, the relay opens and isolates the battery. Two relays aren't needed, the fridge can run on 12v while the van is running, the aux. can charge, and the batteries isolate when stopped. If you draw it out, you'll see how it works.
Timwhy, the #30 terminal should have the power from the main fuse panel (alternator) connected to it. The new aux + terminal goes to #87.
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