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Class_gas
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: The Ozark Hills area, Missouri
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 Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Andy T. I understand now, this is on the opposite side of my photo. Both of these connectors in your photos are connected on my Beetle. My wire running down the steering shaft is red, not brown, but it's all hooked up as your photos show.
The brown wire you see in my cabin (that is not connected) terminates on the second terminal on the horn speaker. The black wire with yellow stripe is the horn power. So, should the ground (brown wire) you see in my photo be routed into the luggage compartment somewhere?
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1966 Beetle, daily driver.
Former love affairs- '65, '69, '74 Beetle, '74 Thing, '78 Westy. |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26524
Location: Douglas, WY
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Class_gas
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: The Ozark Hills area, Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Well, that certainly makes sense as to why it is so short. Now here's my conundrum- I don't have the connector on my steering column. I've got the one of the other side of the firewall & the one at the rubber grommet at the steering box, but not the one on the column in the cabin as seen in that second image.
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1966 Beetle, daily driver.
Former love affairs- '65, '69, '74 Beetle, '74 Thing, '78 Westy. |
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thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1358
Location: South West (Pa.)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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I found these photos in theSamba gallery. Not my photos. The 1st photo looks like an add on button . The 2nd photo is from a ghia. A general idea of where the wire connects. Hope this helps. |
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Class_gas
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: The Ozark Hills area, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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It's a '66 that's been converted to 12 volt.
The horn was always grounding somewhere so I disconnected it at the steering wheel. Today I removed all the shrink to locate the short. This wire was folded over on itself. The wrap tore & this popped out before I could see if/what it was touching. Then I realized the steering tube AND the steering box had wires. The insulation was broken on the one to the box. Is this unused?
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1966 Beetle, daily driver.
Former love affairs- '65, '69, '74 Beetle, '74 Thing, '78 Westy. |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26524
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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What year and model is this? There should be no return wire from the horn. Just the black/yellow power feed that goes to the horn itself, the other wire out of the horn then goes to the tab on the steering column tube. The only other wire goes down the center of the hollow column shaft.
Oh, I clicked on the 6VDC horn relay link I had above, but apparently Newark changed their site and now you can't directly link to anything, even searches, on their site any more. But you'll find a couple of matches if you search the Newark site for "6VDC Automotive Relay"
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Andy T.
"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!" |
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Class_gas
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: The Ozark Hills area, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Another resurrection on this great thread! My horn has had a ground short for some time. I took off the shrink today to see and here's what I have. This ground wire is connected to the horn, comes into the cabin... where should it go? It's so short.
[/img]
_________________
1966 Beetle, daily driver.
Former love affairs- '65, '69, '74 Beetle, '74 Thing, '78 Westy. |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26524
Location: Douglas, WY
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rideklein
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2012
Posts: 9
Location: pasadena
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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is there a horn relay for a 6volt? (1966 bug) I installed a "Hard Start" relay for starting issues and it works fine.
Thanks for all the input and help!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26524
Location: Douglas, WY
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rideklein
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2012
Posts: 9
Location: pasadena
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| I just checked a youtube video regarding the installation of the horn ring, contact plate etc. Looks like it may be the order I have been installing the plastic washers....it appears the correct way is as follows:...starting with the horn ring and working down toward the steering tube...…plastic washers slip over the screws, then the screws through the chrome horn ring, then the brass contact pate (with cupped/lip side down) goes on the back/down side of the chrome horn ring then the plastic sleeve/washers go into the brass contact ring with the long part of the washer going "up" into the brass ring...then the springs, then it all gets mounted into the steering wheel, remember the brown ground wire has to go through the middle of the brass contact plate and chrome horn ring. Not sure if all the contact surfaces need to be filed or sanded for best connection? Such simple wiring but I have not had good luck getting it to work. Again, this is for my 1966 6V. |
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rideklein
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2012
Posts: 9
Location: pasadena
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| sorry if this is redundant and has all been discussed before BUT, I have tried EVERYTHING, first of all it's a 1966 6V, horn works when tested....all contacts have been cleaned, new horn ring, contact plate, plastic washers springs etc. And as described earlier....when I push and release the horn ring, I get a little "chirp" or "blip"....I've also seen on-line that the contact plate in the steering wheel should be cupped side up and cupped side down?!?!?and yes, I've tried it both ways. I did have the gas tank out and did some painting around the front beam but was careful to protect and clean the ground contacts...…………..any thoughts? Thanks, Bob |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4193
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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This is a great thread on the restoration of the Hella horns and the video explains the operation of all electric horns really well. They are dead simple devices and are basically an electromechanical oscillator.
I will add that if adjusting the contacts doesn't work then the horn should be disassembled and the contacts should be lightly filed and then adjusted once the horn id reassembled and back in the car. If the horn is a later crimpted together version then adjusting the contacts is the only option. If adjustment doesn't work then the only real option is to replace it.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=663337&highlight=horn+rebuild
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4193
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| hitest wrote: |
| splitjunkie wrote: |
I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car. |
Chris- It is because of your comment in the other thread that I had an "Oh yeah, the contacts" moment, readjusted my horn- and once again my horn beeps! Thank you, Bradford |
Glad to have helped. People are so quick to add band aid fixes instead of fixing the actual problem. The horns in these cars worked fine when new and never required a relay to function. In the case of a horn with the contacts slightly out of adjustment a relay will give a little more juice to the horn and can make it work again but eventually will stop working or be less reliable because of the continued wear of the contacts and of the added parts and complexity.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10324
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car. |
Chris- It is because of your comment in the other thread that I had an "Oh yeah, the contacts" moment, readjusted my horn- and once again my horn beeps! Thank you, Bradford
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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vwgirl1961a
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Before I take my car to my mechanic I will take a look under it over the weekend for any loose or bad connection. I was googling and might have an idea what I am looking for
| splitjunkie wrote: |
I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car. |
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"Age doesn't really matter unless you are a cheese". |
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vwgirl1961a
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Cusser! I'll take a look at the wire under the car this weekend
| Cusser wrote: |
| vwgirl1961a wrote: |
| My 1965 6v horn hasn't been working for years. |
A horn is a VERY IMPORTANT safety feature. Of course Arizona does ZERO safety testing on vehicles, so the owner must keep on top of horn, headlights, brake lights, turn signals, etc.
First thing is to test the horn itself; on my newer 12 volt VWs I've had to replace the horns. Second would be to check the horn contacts on the steering wheel, the circuit grounds through that. Third would be to go under the VW to ensure that the wire is connected to the steering column. Fourth would be to make sure connections are clean and tight.
Fifth would be to add a relay. |
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"Age doesn't really matter unless you are a cheese". |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4193
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33018
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| vwgirl1961a wrote: |
| My 1965 6v horn hasn't been working for years. |
A horn is a VERY IMPORTANT safety feature. Of course Arizona does ZERO safety testing on vehicles, so the owner must keep on top of horn, headlights, brake lights, turn signals, etc.
First thing is to test the horn itself; on my newer 12 volt VWs I've had to replace the horns. Second would be to check the horn contacts on the steering wheel, the circuit grounds through that. Third would be to go under the VW to ensure that the wire is connected to the steering column. Fourth would be to make sure connections are clean and tight.
Fifth would be to add a relay.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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vwgirl1961a
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Thanks!!!!
| glutamodo wrote: |
| Well, stock, there is no relay. That's why I added one as shown. You just have to be sure you protect it from water damage under the car. |
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