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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53117
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| motorbaby wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
ok well I haven't cracked the case yet, but found some interesting items.
I thought I had a leaky pushrod tube, but it looks like the leak was elswhere.
and then this [/img] |
The head gaskets should not have been installed. They should have lapped the cylinders to the head/s. VW put a bulletin out years ago regarding this. |
Nobody noticed that's a piston ring in the head?! See the gap at bottom right near the stud hole. |
Looks like a burnt through head gasket from here.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
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Слава Україні! |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42879
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| motorbaby wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
ok well I haven't cracked the case yet, but found some interesting items.
I thought I had a leaky pushrod tube, but it looks like the leak was elswhere.
and then this [/img] |
The head gaskets should not have been installed. They should have lapped the cylinders to the head/s. VW put a bulletin out years ago regarding this. |
Nobody noticed that's a piston ring in the head?! See the gap at bottom right near the stud hole. |
the post was from 2009 and that is a head gasket that has burned thru - and a perfect example why VW released the memo in 1991 not to use them anymore.
_________________
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"  |
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motorbaby
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2013
Posts: 6
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| udidwht wrote: |
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
ok well I haven't cracked the case yet, but found some interesting items.
I thought I had a leaky pushrod tube, but it looks like the leak was elswhere.
and then this [/img] |
The head gaskets should not have been installed. They should have lapped the cylinders to the head/s. VW put a bulletin out years ago regarding this. |
Nobody noticed that's a piston ring in the head?! See the gap at bottom right near the stud hole. |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| 59walkthru wrote: |
I also notice you had a burnt head gasket so that surface will need flycut on all four barrels and as some one already mentioned those gaskets are no longer used, but still are included in gasket sets.
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If the heads have to be cleaned up with a mild flycut, you bet head sealing rings may be required. I have seen too many engines leaking between the heads and the cylinders because the cylinder barrels never touch the head spigots, instead, the fin metal is bottoming out on the cylinder head surface.
There is no hard and fast rule left in the VW engine world. So many people, so many teardowns and rebuilds, you HAVE to assume nothing and measure everything six ways to next Tuesday and then some more.
Here's mine: if you need to flycut the heads, go ahead and flycut the heads. When you cc the combustion chambers and adjust your deck height, get the sealing ring thickness you need for proper compression . . . and here's the rub. Get the good wide copper sealing rings in the thickness you need from Air-Cooled. Net. I bought some EMPI ones that were so laughably skinny and cheap, WTH.
Colin
(p.s. failed sealing rings are not because the sealing rings were at fault. They are merely canaries in the coal mine telling you the engine got overheated at some point and you lost clamping force when everything contracted back at normal temperature)
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www.facebook.com/groups/324780910972038/ |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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fastinradford
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2008
Posts: 2895
Location: Athens Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| don't do it that way. |
x2, especially if you value your ability to see 
_________________
95 jetta 5spd, (first waterpumper vw)
the nice 74 Ghia, (of course the fiance drives that one).
My mk1 jetta 1.6d
"It'd still be like my grandads old broom though, original, only 3 new heads and two new handles" -Marv [UK] |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42879
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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don't do it that way.
_________________
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice" |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| 59walkthru wrote: |
| no special tool required to remove the valves. place a large socket over the retaining washer on the valve spring and pop it with a rubber mallet. the retainers (2 per valve) will pop out and the valve will be unsprung. putting them back in is not as easy, but thats a job for your machine shop anyway. |
I have some spare heads to practice on, I will give it a try.
well some time later and I couldn't get any to pop. I guess I need a larger mallet. |
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59walkthru
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 156
Location: CO
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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no special tool required to remove the valves. place a large socket over the retaining washer on the valve spring and pop it with a rubber mallet. the retainers (2 per valve) will pop out and the valve will be unsprung. putting them back in is not as easy, but thats a job for your machine shop anyway.
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SGKent wrote:
take a photo of the shaft in the bore so we can see it, and one of your tool. |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 73kombi wrote: |
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
| I am guessing the one head went bad, and thats where the metal came from. |
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
| I just went out and checked again, both heads are fine, no lost keeper or guide. that metal I found was from a different one. |
Have you pulled the valves yet? |
I don't have the tool to do it, I have to line one up.
( sorry for the delay, I didn't recive a notification of your message.) |
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59walkthru
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 156
Location: CO
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not an engine builder, But I play one on TYPE4TV...
I think the case should be ok to use once it has been cleaned an inspected. any one want to weigh in here? the heads on the other hand cannot be simply looked over and declared "fine". many variables here and unseen damage+ wear.also you have two different heads with different amounts of wear. possibly different quality of springs, and the chambers would need to be cc'd for a more balanced engine. I also notice you had a burnt head gasket so that surface will need flycut on all four barrels and as some one already mentioned those gaskets are no longer used, but still are included in gasket sets. the heads and balancing are a job for a "VW only" machine shop. same with the crank. most good rebuilders would recommend that the complete rotating assembly be balanced including pully, flywheel and rods. the money spent on doing this is minimal when compared to the benefit. like they say "do it right the first time or pay for it twice" also like I mentioned the gex head should go. there work is so sub par, most of us wont run any thing they have touched. new cam and distributor drive gear is also recommended. I cant wait to rebuild another T4. have fun and enjoy the waiting is the hardest part.
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SGKent wrote:
take a photo of the shaft in the bore so we can see it, and one of your tool. |
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73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rockdog2877 wrote: |
| I am guessing the one head went bad, and thats where the metal came from. |
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
| I just went out and checked again, both heads are fine, no lost keeper or guide. that metal I found was from a different one. |
Have you pulled the valves yet? |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="73kombi"]
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
My plan is to reassemble the (grey)case all the same parts- new where needed. to have a running engine, than take my stock VW case (silver)and use that to build one with upgrades over the winter, when I have more cash. (camper special ect.)[/quote
Don't let the color fool you (it's irrelevant)...that GE case started it's life like any other stock VW case...
The betting window is about to close! |
I just went out and checked again, both heads are fine, no lost keeper or guide.
that metal I found was from a different one. |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| WhirledTraveller wrote: |
| In your picture on your other thread one of your bearings is showing significant wear, down to the copper. Take your case and crank to a good machine shop and get everything mic'd carefully. |
It is planned. thanks |
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73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| rockdog2877 wrote: |
| My plan is to reassemble the (grey)case all the same parts- new where needed. to have a running engine, than take my stock VW case (silver)and use that to build one with upgrades over the winter, when I have more cash. (camper special ect.) |
Don't let the color fool you (it's irrelevant)...that GE case started it's life like any other stock VW case...
The betting window is about to close!
Last edited by 73kombi on Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| actually - if you go slow and get the rebuild right, you will have much more enjoyment from this bus. They are great vehicles to own. |
no arguments here, I plan on a solid rebuild.
but my question is this.
Should the "reconditioned" case be fine? (barring any obvious faults)
My plan is to reassemble the (grey)case all the same parts- new where needed. to have a running engine, than take my stock VW case (silver)and use that to build one with upgrades over the winter, when I have more cash. (camper special ect.) |
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73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| rockdog2877 wrote: |
The Passenger side head is GEX, the other VW.
I am guessing the one head went bad, and thats where the metal came from. |
So, come on already....which one failed, (dropped a valve guide)
was it the GEX?
Place your bets at the window in the lobby...  |
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WhirledTraveller
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Joined: January 09, 2008
Posts: 1414
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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In your picture on your other thread one of your bearings is showing significant wear, down to the copper. Take your case and crank to a good machine shop and get everything mic'd carefully.
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1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42879
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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actually - if you go slow and get the rebuild right, you will have much more enjoyment from this bus. They are great vehicles to own.
_________________
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice" |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 59walkthru wrote: |
lol sorry you were persueded to split your case. I saw this coming. the item in you first pic looks to be a piece of valve guide. at least now you can reassemble it correctly. rtv sealent can cause probs so clean it out good, you dont want that stuff plugging up any oil galleys. did you find that one of your valve guides had broken?
your case IS a vw case it just happens to have been "reconditioned" by GEX there idea of a reconditioning is hot tank and paint. if you find the gex stamp on your heads...find different ones. good luck on your rebuild and I'm sure the knowlege gained makes it all worthwhile. |
The case number starts off with a faint "A T 00.."there is a GE stamped above it.
I was happy with splitting the case, I feel much more confident about the whole thing.
So the case should be fine to use? it looks like it is in good shape.
The Passenger side head is GEX, the other VW.
I am guessing the one head went bad, and thats where the metal came from. |
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