T4 Syncros...are they 4x4s or All Wheel Drives?

[jlrftype7]

I read this thread with some biased interest since I’ve work on and driven Land Rover products for almost 20 years now. Modern 4x4s are complicated and expensive, no argument there for even an older Syncro compared to a comparable 2wheel drive version of any make.
Once you’ve driven a 4x4 model in weather or driving conditions that would overly challenge a 2wd vehicle, you see what the fuss is about.
The extra expenses ARE annoying, and painful on a wallet or household budget.....
But when faced with difficult conditions, they get us through the awful weather or muddy tracks with more ease than you would think is possible, especially if fast acting electronics are mated to a system.
It’s those systems that make an inexperienced driver look good while driving poor or non-existing tracks that previously would have required great skill using a 4x4 from the 50s to 80s.
I don’t have a need for a Syncro, but I appreciate all those that are able to keep them on the road despite the added costs over a more humble 2wd like my Tin Top.
Take a BOW, all Syncro Owners, and keep on ‘trekking’....
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[MsTaboo]

Have you driven it in the snow? Seems that with the low clearance the AWD T4 Syncro would mostly be good for snow and ice.
Our T3 Syncro is so much better than the 2wd Vanagon in snow it's not even funny. (of course it's great off-road also )
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Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec

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[pjstock]

let me add my very late to the table 2 cents, for anyone else who is considering a Syncro.

this past February we, having succumbed to the "Syncro must be Better" idea, imported, from Europe, a 1995 T4 Syncro.

having taken one long trip 8000kms and several short trips I am convinced that Syncro, for most people, is a complete and utter waste of money.
Not only does a Syncro cost significantly more up front (I would estimate.... Syncro over non-Syncro commands a.... 20+% premium.)
it adds weight, and way more complexity in terms of rear differential, activators, sensors, etc.
and when those fail it turns into a big money repair. (I just retrieved ours from the mechanic. but the time he had finished rebuilding the rear differential, we had invested about..... $3000 USD.

actually our Syncro started making terrible noises before we went on that 8000km trip and so we had the long drive shaft removed and we ran that trip 2WD. no problems.

unless you plan to go completely off road (which even a T4 Syncro is not really built for) Syncro is a waste of money.

I don't expect I will ever be off of pavement or at the worst, hard packed gravel or dirt.

[Andy P]

It is a funny term.
It aptly describes the Tiguan though.
Only a Toureg would be sufficient in the VW range for what I need 4x4 wise and they are seriously pricey.
A T3 Vanagon Syncro would probably do it..... if I dropped a lot of money on it.
And T3s are pretty long in the tooth these days.
A Land Rover Discovery Tdi would be best but again.....they're not cheap if they're in good shape and many are likewise long in the tooth and their electrics can be dodgy and pricey to replace.
Even towing a serious 4x4 to the hunt zone isn't really practical.
I use public roads when hunting so it needs to be registered & insured anyway.
Anyhow enough about that!
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'62 Beetle

Jägdwagen

[photogdave]

[Andy P]

Wow, this was all AGES ago.
Now I have 6 kids!
We ended up getting a standard, 5-cylinder gasolene, long wheel base Eurovan.
Unfortunately it wasn't a great vehicle.
It had been poorly treated and despite the significant repairs we did it ended up too much trouble.
In the end we traded it in on a new turbo diesel Hyundai van.
I'd like to say I'm ashamed but I'm not because it was the best option.
The new VW Multivan only has 7 seats and we needed 8.
Plus the Caravelle is IMO poorly laid out, at least $15k more than the Hyundai here in Australia and the gearboxes have had their problems.
We just couldn't justify the cost on brand loyalty, especially since VW dealers Down Under are infamous for their inflexibility and arrogance.
My only regret is that I'm currently without a 4x4.
Since I hunt that's been a real PITA.
And some of the places I've hunted in the last year required a serious 4x4, not just little SUV or "soft roader" as they call them here.
But since we have our '67 Panel, '62 Beetle and the Hyundai on the road it's not practical to drop more money registering and insuring on a 4x4 I'll only really need 5 or 6 times a year.
Because when I NEED a 4x4 I need a good reliable one that can drive 500 hwy miles to the hunting area and then climb steep grades often with mud on them.
Even my old Land Rover wouldn't have been suitable, mainly because it's top speed was about 55mph, so there aren't any cheap options, even purchasing one.
I don't know where that leaves me for the moment in terms of a 4x4, but I drive my '67 Panel daily to work and when the Beetle gets its new motor it'll be driven a lot too.
Practical is how I have to be while my family is young.
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Cheers & God Bless

'62 Beetle

Jägdwagen

[IdahoDoug]

Looks like he hasn't gotten on here in a couple months, so you might PM him since he's also a bus owner, and not going to be on the Vanagon side much. I'd tell him to scrap the Land Rover idea but someone earlier did and got his nose bloodied for the good suggestion. He didn't reveal he already is a Land Rover owner until later in the thread, so his loyalty to that brand may be less practical, and more as a cult-member. To each their own, but I wouldn't take an old Rover out back very far - especially since he also acknowledges he is not much of a wrench swinger.

Ah, well - keeps the Search and Rescue guys busy, I guess!!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Abyss]

sorry, old thread revival, but Andy P, whats the update?!

[RalphCC]

[tencentlife]

[Petervw]

Wow Ralph. I had a look at your Island pics ....What Island are we admiring here ??

[Andy P]

[ericos_bob]

I am not so blessed to have for children of my own. You may not have realised it yet but you will have one of the most capable 4x4s out there having 4 kids and a missus to push when you get stuck .

The only reason I can afford my t3 syncro at the moment is because I'm a bachelor. The syncro doesn't complain as much as a missus and is far easier to understand. Can't cook a good meal for me though or do my washing

[RalphCC]

[Andy P]

Thanks, mate.
It's a sad fact but until the rug rats move out, or they can drive themselves around (and God help me when THAT day comes! ) I have to drive something that's....I can't believe I'm admitting this.....a practical, family car.
Blurrrrgh.......man, does that phrase leave a dirty taste in my mouth!
Still, so long as I'm driving a VW and not a Tarago I'm ok.
Serves me right for having 4 kids though.
And they don't have expensive tastes or anything.
My eldest wants a Splitscreen DC!!
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Cheers & God Bless

'62 Beetle

Jägdwagen

[ericos_bob]

Sounds like your spot on in working out which car is best for your needs. I did a lot of traveling in my heavily loaded t2 bay window kombi in 2007 and I managed to make it around just about anywhere. Places such as the telegraph track up to the top of cape york and through the simpson desert plus many harsh 4x4 tracks thorugh the kimberly and rarely did i get stuck somewhere.

A t4 or T5 may not have difflocks but still is an awd and with some modification to get a little more clearance should handle any 4x4 a-b track you throw at it. Extreme off roading is something else and reading your previous posts isn't what you're buying a syncro for.Diff locks really are just the icing on the cake. Good luck with whatever route you choose to go.

[Andy P]

Ralph, are the 215/70R16s the biggest thing that'll fit into the wheel wells?
And couldn't I bend up some panels myself to protect the motor?
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Cheers & God Bless

'62 Beetle

Jägdwagen

[Andy P]

Thanks for the advice, mate.
In the end I've decided to get probably a late model T4 or early T5 Syncro Tdi and for a few reasons.
Firstly, even the best of the T3s have done well over 200,000km and many have done twice that.
Even if they've done less most are around 20 years old and even a reliable car is starting to need extensive work by that age.
On top of that the Aussie T3s are all 2.1litre petrol motors which aren't drastically more powerful than the aircooled 2.0litre motor.
That makes it really unsuitable for towing anything at all.
The gearbox, although it's a 5-speed, in them is even weaker than a 091 2.0l box.
That's a good argument against the Subie conversion although I know of people who've done them with no problems.
I also know of people who have cooked the box.
I've seen the V6 conversions from Sth Africa and I'd love one but it strikes me that it would end up costing me as much again for the van if I imported it.
On the otherhand I could get a late 90s Tdi T4 Syncro with around 150,000km on the clock, raise it a little, put some decent rubber on it and a sump guard and it would get me into a lot of spots.....and probably back out too.
The big drawbacks I see is no low range, no diff locks and ground clearance but since most of the time it'll be a vehicle we put freeway miles on or shuttle the kids around in I need to be realistic.
I have a beat up '55 11-Window which may get a lift job but I'll have to see where that goes.
For the moment though we have to keep to 2 cars and my old '68 Land Rover ute has only 3 seats so it has to go.
I don't have the money right now but we'll get something in the new year.
I'll keep you all posted on what we end up with.
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Cheers & God Bless

'62 Beetle

Jägdwagen

[ericos_bob]

Hey.

I looked long and hard at importing a syncro from south africa and found that in the end it would be cheaper to buy one locally. The place to find south african syncro's have seen good syncro's for around 8-12k aussie on www.gumtree.co.za. You could go this route but after paying 4 grand shipping YOu'll need to buy pre-1989 if you want to avoid the current adr compliance. Ofcourse factor in a couple grand for quarantine and lets not forget import tax/duties $$$$ . ADR compliance is also necessary though not a big hassle on vehicles pre 1989. Buy a newer syncro and it will need to meet compliance to current adr standards which can easily cost $10000 plus depending on how much work is required on specific models.


I see very nice syncro campers pop up here in oz for $16-20k some with a reconditioned motor and gearbox .I recommend going that route. Empty vans them pop up on ebay and the likes for arund 6000 with complete transmission rebuilds. I don't know your budget but for an extra 10 grand you could even have a newer 2000+ subaru conversion done. There are certainly options out there but you do need to look harder to find a t3 syncro well looked after.

[RalphCC]

@ Taigagreen: you're welcome! I hope you all have a high speed connection
You'll have fun with your syncro. Next year I want spend there few weeks again (adding some more scratches on my underbody protection).

typically modified by Arctic truck

The really small quad-trailer behind it looked funny
No money left for a third pair of big wheels?
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