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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6768
Location: Northern California
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elginbuggy
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Joined: April 24, 2011
Posts: 4
Location: Elgin Illinois
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 Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Steering Shaft Coupler |
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Has anyone ever replaced the cage on a late beetle steering shaft with a super beetle u joint shaft? I also have an older column but the end of that has been cut off. If I could get a stub for that to weld on i still need to connect to the steering box. Havent cutthe hole in the body yet and just starting the roll bar so open to suggestions
Mike.
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EVfun 
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6366
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Steering Shaft Coupler |
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Good picture, it shows a proper rag joint too. My steering shaft has an extension because the Berry Mini-T (and some other kit cars) have the seating position moved back. My coupler is made of of 2 female halves (steering box side) with the rag joint between them and a smooth solid shaft used as an extension. That shaft has the notch shown, at each end, for the bolt to pass through so even if it starts to come loose the steering input will still be transferred to the box. It does not have the fine spline like grooves the stock part has, but there are no matching splines inside the stock steering column shaft. The split female side tightens around the male side when the bolt in the clamp is tightened.
Good point on using locking hardware in this critical location.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6768
Location: Northern California
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20896
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Steering Shaft Coupler |
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| TDB wrote: |
On the picture on this page. Does that coupling that goes onto the steering box have any groves on the steering column or do you use the clamp to make it tight. I am still trying to get this Maxi Taxi back together. Thanks Dean
I am sure Dale will let me know. Thanks again. |
Steering box shaft on my buggy is splined and yoke(?) for coupler is splined, don't remember though if bolt sits high in clamp and not in groove in steering box shaft like steering wheel shaft side..
Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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TDB
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2016
Posts: 2
Location: Wetumpka, AL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Steering Shaft Coupler |
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On the picture on this page. Does that coupling that goes onto the steering box have any groves on the steering column or do you use the clamp to make it tight. I am still trying to get this Maxi Taxi back together. Thanks Dean
I am sure Dale will let me know. Thanks again. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6366
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| didget69 wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| didget69 wrote: |
| Urethane in the steering linkage? No thanks.... VW didn't use them from the factory. |
I just wanted to point out that "VW didn't" is a bit ironic in the buggy forum. 
I mean, VW didn't cut 14 inches out of any frames or hang the floorboards off a light weight fiberglass body either! That said, there is a good reason not to use a urethane steering coupler. The factory rag joint is naturally redundant. It would require complete degradation of the rubber and a significant number of broken cloth strands before the steering could get free. The urethane can fail with no built in back-up keeping the steering connected. |
My point was that a new factory rag joint coupling works well, for many years, as intended. Why change to a lesser quality urethane part? So you can run a pretty colored rag joint to match your 'fancy red wiring loom' that is guaranteed to give you 10 more horsepower?  |
I agree with the conclusion and do run a factory rag joint. I just thought the reason you gave was rather funny in the Buggy forum. A urethane coupler may suffer a rapid complete failure. That is quite undesirable in a car steering system! 
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6768
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| And the genuine American ones, not those crappy Belgian or Chinese ones |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20896
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| didget69 wrote: |
These are stronger than the urethane couplers...
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Besure to use nylock nuts and washers though...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4942
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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These are stronger than the urethane couplers...
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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lostinbaja
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Joined: December 19, 2004
Posts: 4036
Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| airdreams1 wrote: |
| dirtbugger wrote: |
I managed to find that Pic of the coupler on my mates buggy.
It was only months old and as you can see from the condition of all the surrounding hardware, the buggy had never rolled a tyre in the dirt.
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I know this is an old post......... But this thing was not even installed correctly! Its no wonder why It failed. Cant blame the product for this one... it should have a washer on both sides of all 4 holes just like the instructions should have said.
It should look something like this:
bit longer.
& if it isnt flat like it should be, adjust things till it is. Dont leave it like this:
Leaving it warped like in the pic above will ruin the OEM rubber ones too. it just takes a bit longer. (I know I lost a nylock & will be replacing it in the morning)
That said Ive never had a problem running them on my Baja. no problems with the motor mounts or trans mounts either. But I ran them with a center trans mount & bell housing strap as well (just to be sure I didnt get any motor hop & brake anything. & never a problem with the shifting coupler or trailing arm bushings.
All was on by baja since Y2K.... & Yes they saw lots of off road use..
Just for the record, I didnt buy the cheep empi crap made in China!
OH, & should mention that the same urethane steering coupler is now on my Samurai.......... Soon to be a Volksuki Bugurai (Samurai chassis with my 66 Baja body) |
If you mount a stock (OEM) ragnut the same way, it will still last years longer than a urathane ragnut.
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Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4942
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| didget69 wrote: |
| Urethane in the steering linkage? No thanks.... VW didn't use them from the factory. |
I just wanted to point out that "VW didn't" is a bit ironic in the buggy forum.
I mean, VW didn't cut 14 inches out of any frames or hang the floorboards off a light weight fiberglass body either! That said, there is a good reason not to use a urethane steering coupler. The factory rag joint is naturally redundant. It would require complete degradation of the rubber and a significant number of broken cloth strands before the steering could get free. The urethane can fail with no built in back-up keeping the steering connected. |
My point was that a new factory rag joint coupling works well, for many years, as intended. Why change to a lesser quality urethane part? So you can run a pretty colored rag joint to match your 'fancy red wiring loom' that is guaranteed to give you 10 more horsepower?
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6366
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| didget69 wrote: |
| Urethane in the steering linkage? No thanks.... VW didn't use them from the factory. |
I just wanted to point out that "VW didn't" is a bit ironic in the buggy forum.
I mean, VW didn't cut 14 inches out of any frames or hang the floorboards off a light weight fiberglass body either! That said, there is a good reason not to use a urethane steering coupler. The factory rag joint is naturally redundant. It would require complete degradation of the rubber and a significant number of broken cloth strands before the steering could get free. The urethane can fail with no built in back-up keeping the steering connected.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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wythac
Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004
Posts: 2791
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Another reason to swap them out....they are stiff and can help make a short wheelbase buggy feel a little more twitchy. I noticed a difference when I got the WCM rag joint, the steering feedback was smoother. |
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4942
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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True that the installation method is important, but the fact is that the urethane steering joints are best used as wall art or as a paper weight. I'll take a factory rag-joint any day over the urethane part...
Urethane in suspension components? Sure, I'd use them.
Urethane in the steering linkage? No thanks.... VW didn't use them from the factory.
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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airdreams1
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 43
Location: Star ID
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Not trying to argue anything with anyone. Just stating that if not isstalled properly like in pic 2 (that I intentionaly set up that way for the pic) you can & will cause either type of coupler to fail prematurly.
This is probably why the other ones failed like they did. Or could just be the lousy material the Chinese ones were made of. |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6768
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| airdreams1 wrote: |
I know this is an old post......... But this thing was not even installed correctly! Its no wonder why It failed. Cant blame the product for this one... it should have a washer on both sides of all 4 holes just like the instructions should have said. & if it isnt flat like it should be, adjust things till it is.
Leaving it warped like in the pic above will ruin the OEM rubber ones too. it just takes a bit longer.
That said Ive never had a problem running them on my Baja. no problems with the motor mounts or trans mounts either. But I ran them with a center trans mount & bell housing strap as well (just to be sure I didnt get any motor hop & brake anything. & never a problem with the shifting coupler or trailing arm bushings.
All was on by baja since Y2K.... & Yes they saw lots of off road use..
Just for the record, I didnt buy the cheep empi crap made in China!
OH, & should mention that the same urethane steering coupler is now on my Samurai.......... Soon to be a Volksuki Bugurai (Samurai chassis with my 66 Baja body) |
Great idea, remove the flex! In fact just replace it with a solid steel one or better yet attach the shaft directly to the box. Those silly engineers at VW sure screwed that one up. I wonder how they ever figured a flex coupling was necessary.
I know exactly what you mean about the OEM rubber ones eventually being ruined too. I've got a 50 year old one on a steering box in the garage and almost all the rubber is crumbled. Its funny though, the fabric cords are pretty much still intact, they're hella tough and I'm pretty sure it would still get me home without catastrophically failing and allowing me to run into something or someone. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20896
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| airdreams1 wrote: |
| dirtbugger wrote: |
I managed to find that Pic of the coupler on my mates buggy.
It was only months old and as you can see from the condition of all the surrounding hardware, the buggy had never rolled a tyre in the dirt.
|
I know this is an old post......... But this thing was not even installed correctly! Its no wonder why It failed. Cant blame the product for this one... it should have a washer on both sides of all 4 holes just like the instructions should have said.
It should look something like this:
bit longer.
& if it isnt flat like it should be, adjust things till it is. Dont leave it like this:
Leaving it warped like in the pic above will ruin the OEM rubber ones too. it just takes a bit longer. (I know I lost a nylock & will be replacing it in the morning)
That said Ive never had a problem running them on my Baja. no problems with the motor mounts or trans mounts either. But I ran them with a center trans mount & bell housing strap as well (just to be sure I didnt get any motor hop & brake anything. & never a problem with the shifting coupler or trailing arm bushings.
All was on by baja since Y2K.... & Yes they saw lots of off road use..
Just for the record, I didnt buy the cheep empi crap made in China!
OH, & should mention that the same urethane steering coupler is now on my Samurai.......... Soon to be a Volksuki Bugurai (Samurai chassis with my 66 Baja body) |
Carry spare "rag" joint in tool box...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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lostinbaja
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004
Posts: 4036
Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:19 am Post subject: |
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The urethane is not meant to be used in a "ragnut" application, there is no redundancy. The rubber ragnut has nylon fiber in it to hold it together, it will not fail completely like a urethane ragnut.
_________________
Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92
Last edited by lostinbaja on Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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airdreams1
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 43
Location: Star ID
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| dirtbugger wrote: |
I managed to find that Pic of the coupler on my mates buggy.
It was only months old and as you can see from the condition of all the surrounding hardware, the buggy had never rolled a tyre in the dirt.
|
I know this is an old post......... But this thing was not even installed correctly! Its no wonder why It failed. Cant blame the product for this one... it should have a washer on both sides of all 4 holes just like the instructions should have said.
It should look something like this:
bit longer.
& if it isnt flat like it should be, adjust things till it is. Dont leave it like this:
Leaving it warped like in the pic above will ruin the OEM rubber ones too. it just takes a bit longer. (I know I lost a nylock & will be replacing it in the morning)
That said Ive never had a problem running them on my Baja. no problems with the motor mounts or trans mounts either. But I ran them with a center trans mount & bell housing strap as well (just to be sure I didnt get any motor hop & brake anything. & never a problem with the shifting coupler or trailing arm bushings.
All was on by baja since Y2K.... & Yes they saw lots of off road use..
Just for the record, I didnt buy the cheep empi crap made in China!
OH, & should mention that the same urethane steering coupler is now on my Samurai.......... Soon to be a Volksuki Bugurai (Samurai chassis with my 66 Baja body) |
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