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syncrodoka Samba Member

Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 12406 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Don't beat around the bush RCB, tell us how you really feel
I agree with you, but I got my sticker a few years ago so I am happy. |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Most everyone associated with CARB was created through -nal sex. Shame on me but its the most corrupt group of pond scummers slithering around the planet.
These worthless pieces of worm do-do are appointed by friends of friends of friends and have no friken clue nor do they give a shit about smog or pollution its all about the Jacksons and Hamiltons and Grants. |
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Jon_slider Samba Member

Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: Finally got the Bar Code from the Referee!! |
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The CARB Referee Saga
I now have a barcode sticker for my 2.2 Subaru powered Syncro westy.
For those interested in obtaining one, there has been a change in policy and CARB will now issue bar codes again.
Last year they were trying a policy of referring all Kennedy conversions directly to smog shops, but smog shops were refusing to do the smog test without a bar code on the vehicle, even though technically, a Kennedy conversion is legal without a bar code.
I went to the referee that works on Thursdays and Saturdays at Santa Barbara City College. His name is Herve and he is a very nice and helpful man. I think this was his first Subaru conversion exposure. I provided him the phone number for Mastercraft motors, who did the installation. They apparently answered all his questions, because he came to me after about an hour, and announced he had good news and bad news.
The good news was my van passed, and was qualified to receive a bar code. The bad news was the state computer system was down, so no bar code would print.
He told me to come back the next day, which I did. State computers still down. After an hour and a half of waiting for the computer to come up, Herve realized nobody was going to fix the system on a Friday. Apparently the state does not work on 3 Fridays per month, due to budget issues.
So, I was forced to make yet another Referee appointment. I chose Evergreen College, where I was turned down the first time, by a man named Terrence.
I find Terrence very intimidating. In any case, I provided him with the Kennedy paperwork, that is, the Executive Order. But for Terrence that was not enough. He wanted the "Installation Manual" also. When I told him I did not have one, he said I would have to reschedule.
I pleaded that he finish the process and not make me come back for a 5th time. His flip response was, "it doesn't matter how many times you come back."
Another phone call to Mastercraft motors, and thanks to Seth's excellent service, Terrence received a one page "instruction manual" and proceeded to do the test. (photo attached, must stand on your head to read it, but can be printed):
Im pretty sure this was Terrences first Subaru also, he got stuck when he found the Cannister Purge Solenoid vacuum lines were not attached. I explained this was normal, to which he said, "I need something in Black and White", which Mastercraft Motors provided.
After about an hour of running my motor at high RPM, and making my radiator fan come on repeatedly, Terrence finished checking everything he could think of, including the gas cap. He then printed me a bar code and stuck it in my engine bay.
I went home finally happy this was over.
For what its worth, I did not volunteer the location of the computer, and he did not look for it. I dont think he checked for stored CEL codes, but I could be mistaken. My Cel light works, and was not showing any active codes.
By the way, Herve DID ask to see the computer, and asked to see the codes, so I showed him how to connect the green connectors, and that I had no codes. I did not show him how to connect the black connectors to read stored codes.
I had recently been getting code 22, intermittently, turns out it was a bad knock sensor. The van passed in that condition. I had cleared the stored code before going to the Referee.
(ps, excuse my confusion if I say CARB when it should be ARB)
Last edited by Jon_slider on Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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funagon Samba Member

Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 1308 Location: SLC, UT
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| referee that turned me down was unwilling to look up the EO.. he insisted it was my job to provide it to him, as well as a complete parts list for him to verify |
Here it is, if you should ever need it:
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-428-1.pdf _________________ 1990 GL 7-passenger
2.2 liter WBX |
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Beygon Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Dana Point Ca..
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| When I took my Van with the 2.2 Subaru in to the local smog shop I gave them the paper work from Kennedy, showed them the sticker and they plugged the info into their machine. I drove away smogged in about a half hour. |
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VisPacem Samba Member

Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 1143 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| RCB wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
| RCB wrote: |
j_dirge...Im so proud of myself for not technically jumping into the CARB debate, but Ive bitten my tounge so bad its now bleeding  |
Hey! I appreciate that..
But you may want to avoid citrus and tomatoes until those bites heal..
I've looked into this mess a fair bit.. I have seen a lot of conflicting statements made by the agencies and the field guys.
Not unexpected.
I've seen the same type of thing from the DMV field offices vs Sac DMV administration.
Administrators saying one thing (or two or three).. guys in the field following different direction.
But this boils down to what BAR (not CARB) is willing to do within the ODBI rules.
A current BAR administrator may have decided that he is not willing to work with us anymore outside of CARB EOs on ODBI. That would suck.
(That BAR ref nay also have been directed by others.. no one appears to know exactly)
As has been indirectly pointed out by many here is there is no clear line of command regarding this issue and the buck appears to be passing back and forth between the 2 agencies.
Unfortunately for everyone, when there is doubt cast, then the reaction is to go more conservative on iinterpretation.
That sucks, too.
We shall see how this shakes out. |
I couldn't agree more. And now the Guv wants to run the whole health care system....
Our Government couldn't manage a change machine in a laundromat.
Take care |
"""Our Government couldn't manage a change machine""""
"change" you said "change"
"" change"" is too heavy. In your pocket it will pull your pants down and you/we will end up with our b.tt naked  _________________ LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper
No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons) |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| RCB wrote: |
j_dirge...Im so proud of myself for not technically jumping into the CARB debate, but Ive bitten my tounge so bad its now bleeding  |
Hey! I appreciate that..
But you may want to avoid citrus and tomatoes until those bites heal..
I've looked into this mess a fair bit.. I have seen a lot of conflicting statements made by the agencies and the field guys.
Not unexpected.
I've seen the same type of thing from the DMV field offices vs Sac DMV administration.
Administrators saying one thing (or two or three).. guys in the field following different direction.
But this boils down to what BAR (not CARB) is willing to do within the ODBI rules.
A current BAR administrator may have decided that he is not willing to work with us anymore outside of CARB EOs on ODBI. That would suck.
(That BAR ref nay also have been directed by others.. no one appears to know exactly)
As has been indirectly pointed out by many here is there is no clear line of command regarding this issue and the buck appears to be passing back and forth between the 2 agencies.
Unfortunately for everyone, when there is doubt cast, then the reaction is to go more conservative on iinterpretation.
That sucks, too.
We shall see how this shakes out. |
I couldn't agree more. And now the Guv wants to run the whole health care system....
Our Government couldn't manage a change machine in a laundromat.
Take care |
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j_dirge Samba Member

Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| RCB wrote: |
j_dirge...Im so proud of myself for not technically jumping into the CARB debate, but Ive bitten my tounge so bad its now bleeding  |
Hey! I appreciate that..
But you may want to avoid citrus and tomatoes until those bites heal..
I've looked into this mess a fair bit.. I have seen a lot of conflicting statements made by the agencies and the field guys.
Not unexpected.
I've seen the same type of thing from the DMV field offices vs Sac DMV administration.
Administrators saying one thing (or two or three).. guys in the field following different direction.
But this boils down to what BAR (not CARB) is willing to do within the OBDI rules.
A current BAR administrator may have decided that he is not willing to work with us anymore outside of CARB EOs on OBDI. That would suck.
(That BAR ref may also have been directed by others.. no one appears to know exactly)
As has been indirectly pointed out by many here is there is no clear line of command regarding this issue and the buck appears to be passing back and forth between the 2 agencies.
Unfortunately for everyone, when there is doubt cast, then the reaction is to go more conservative on iinterpretation.
That sucks, too.
We shall see how this shakes out. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Last edited by j_dirge on Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| Jon_slider wrote: |
> It is thier job to find out.. if they don't know.
> And if they are reluctant to look up the EO, then you can file a complaint.
sounds good in theory
in the real world, even the Evergreen college referee that turned me down was unwilling to look up the EO.. he insisted it was my job to provide it to him, as well as a complete parts list for him to verify.. yeah right... Im going to give him more fuel for him to refuse... joker..
I even had one smog shop go hysterical, telling me they would be subject to a 10,000 dollar fine if they smog a subaru Van with no bar code from CARB.. All of that info is wrong. and no, Im not going to report them, Im just not giving them my business..
it is really not that hard to find a smog shop to do the test, and once you find one, you can go back every 2 years, its not like you need a different shop every smog test.. |
Its not theory.
Those are the rules.
If you choose to use those rules, your complaint would not go unheard.
Did you have the KEP paper work in order when you were visiting with the hysterical tech?
Sounds like you did not.. or your swap was not EO compliant? |
j_dirge...Im so proud of myself for not technically jumping into the CARB debate, but Ive bitten my tounge so bad its now bleeding  |
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sc-surfer Samba Member

Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 865 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
Congratulations!
I was unable to get a bar code from a referee for my 1990 Subaru 2.2 powered Van, but have found a smog shop in Santa Cruz I can work with, and also passed.
I had told them on the phone about it being a Subaru, executive order, bla bla.. they said come on in..
After passing the test they said, "if you had not told us it was a subaru, we would not have known".. I took that as a hint not to mention it in the future..
Knowing what I know now, I wish I had a 2.5..
A |
Good to know!! I'll get the name of the shop from you when the time comes for me to deal with it!! _________________ '89 Syncro Westy
Catalog of Vans at SDM 2010
Westfalia, Syncro & Tristar Reproduction decals here.
* * * Coming Soon: Washable seat covers for westy bench seat...keep the pets off the upholstery! * * * |
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Jon_slider Samba Member

Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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j_dirge Samba Member

Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
> It is thier job to find out.. if they don't know.
> And if they are reluctant to look up the EO, then you can file a complaint.
sounds good in theory
in the real world, even the Evergreen college referee that turned me down was unwilling to look up the EO.. he insisted it was my job to provide it to him, as well as a complete parts list for him to verify.. yeah right... Im going to give him more fuel for him to refuse... joker..
I even had one smog shop go hysterical, telling me they would be subject to a 10,000 dollar fine if they smog a subaru Van with no bar code from CARB.. All of that info is wrong. and no, Im not going to report them, Im just not giving them my business..
it is really not that hard to find a smog shop to do the test, and once you find one, you can go back every 2 years, its not like you need a different shop every smog test.. |
Its not theory.
Those are the rules.
If you choose to use those rules, your complaint would not go unheard.
Did you have the KEP paper work in order when you were visiting with the hysterical tech?
Sounds like you did not.. or your swap was not EO compliant? _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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r39o Samba Polizei

Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| it is really not that hard to find a smog shop to do the test, and once you find one, you can go back every 2 years, its not like you need a different shop every smog test.. |
EXACTLY!
I keep a folder of old printouts. They review them. It seems to help. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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r39o Samba Polizei

Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| scubabrian wrote: |
| RCB wrote: |
| Did the station do the tank pressure test and the fuel cap test? |
No, they consider it not accessible. They didn't look to hard and I wasn't going to volunteer how easy the canister is to find. |
Ditto. He glanced at it, is all.
I was QUITE relieved.
Again, don't ask, don't tell; I did not say anything more than THANK YOU! _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Jon_slider Samba Member

Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:27 am Post subject: |
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> It is thier job to find out.. if they don't know.
> And if they are reluctant to look up the EO, then you can file a complaint.
sounds good in theory
in the real world, even the Evergreen college referee that turned me down was unwilling to look up the EO.. he insisted it was my job to provide it to him, as well as a complete parts list for him to verify.. yeah right... Im going to give him more fuel for him to refuse... joker..
I even had one smog shop go hysterical, telling me they would be subject to a 10,000 dollar fine if they smog a subaru Van with no bar code from CARB.. All of that info is wrong. and no, Im not going to report them, Im just not giving them my business..
it is really not that hard to find a smog shop to do the test, and once you find one, you can go back every 2 years, its not like you need a different shop every smog test.. |
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Hallvalla Samba Member

Joined: May 05, 2009 Posts: 224 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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I'm in the same boat. Passed CA smog but didn't try for a sticker yet. 'Grats. _________________ 85 Westy
Subaru EJ22 |
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j_dirge Samba Member

Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
I also found a couple that would not look at a non bar code subaru. They really have no clue about the Kennedy Executive Order, and dont want to know..
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It is thier job to find out.. if they don't know.
And if they are reluctant to look up the EO, then you can file a complaint.
Enough complaints and they lose thier smog test license. Sometimes the smog test places forget why they are doing what they do.
I am not advocating an adversarial approach on this.. only that if we go in armed with all the information we are more likely to come out with a mutually benificial outcome.
KEP went through a lot of work to get thier EO.. And CARB makes a lot of noise about properely using the EO process.
I think that we should hold them to thier own rules. Afterall, we pay them to do that job.. No?
To the OP..
Congrats on passing.. Now you've got 2 yrs to find a BAR ref that will help you get thru to the coveted CARB bar code decal.
Do you have the KEP EO decal? _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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scubabrian Samba Member

Joined: June 11, 2008 Posts: 117 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| RCB wrote: |
Congratulations on passing the smogtologist check-up.
I have a simple air-cooled Westy and Im always happy to hear about a Samba member whos passed the California Smog Test.
Did the station do the tank pressure test and the fuel cap test? |
No, they consider it not accessible. They didn't look to hard and I wasn't going to volunteer how easy the canister is to find. _________________ Brian
85 Westfalia with 2.2L Subaru
brian-mchugh-uwphoto.com |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations on passing the smogtologist check-up.
I have a simple air-cooled Westy and Im always happy to hear about a Samba member whos passed the California Smog Test.
Did the station do the tank pressure test and the fuel cap test? |
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Jon_slider Samba Member

Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations!
I was unable to get a bar code from a referee for my 1990 Subaru 2.2 powered Van, but have found a smog shop in Santa Cruz I can work with, and also passed.
I had told them on the phone about it being a Subaru, executive order, bla bla.. they said come on in..
After passing the test they said, "if you had not told us it was a subaru, we would not have known".. I took that as a hint not to mention it in the future..
I also found a couple that would not look at a non bar code subaru. They really have no clue about the Kennedy Executive Order, and dont want to know..
Knowing what I know now, I wish I had a 2.5..
And no I dont feel Im being any less environmentally responsible by passing a smog test without a bar code.. In fact, Im confident my subaru pollutes less than the waterboxer.. |
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