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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5938
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Stigma attached to the WBX? |
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| xflyer wrote: |
Then there is the emission testing in places like California.
How would one get around that with a different motor, such as Subaru, in a Vanagon? |
Really? You would use a 2.2 OBDI engine and the Kennedy Kit which has BAR approved status as an engine conversion.
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'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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xflyer
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2006
Posts: 320
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Stigma attached to the WBX? |
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"That also goes for Subi conversion or any other conversion."
I had to read almost the entire thread to see the above.
'I wish I had a nickel for all the times I heard, "I can get a ---- motor for only ###$. The WasserLeaker will cost twice that to rebuild"'
Installing a different motor no matter what brand or rebuilding the OG VW motor will not cause the 27-35 year old radiator and cooling system hoses, heater cores and fuel lines to become magically new.
After being in the auto business for over 30 years I still can't get my mind around the people that seem to think a particular car or engine is "junk" because you cannot run it without oil, coolant, or a functioning water pump for 1/2 an hour then replace only the oil, bad hose and missing coolant, or water pump/belt and then have it run like "new" again.
Then there is the emission testing in places like California.
How would one get around that with a different motor, such as Subaru, in a Vanagon?
_________________
1989 Campmobile, 1984 7 passenger beater Vanagon
Both with cool A/C |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3672
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| wenholzm wrote: |
| Back in the days of the WBX engine design the Max speed was 55 mph. Slow down, enjoy the view out of our big windshields and side windows, it is beautiful out there. |
Well not in Germany or the rest of Europe! However, brother I am with you! I am usually usually below 65 - just seems to feel appropriate for this van. Get much better fuel mileage too.
John - kickin' back in the slow lane. |
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VisPacem
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007
Posts: 1143
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| rockfish wrote: |
I don't want to get into "religion" or "politics"...as I'm about to tout a GoWesty product - but....
We upgraded to a GW 2.5 WBX and a 5-speed tranny. Could not be happier. Plenty of torque & muscle for hills and with the 5-speed, we cruise very nicely on the highways.
If you're familiar with California highways - whether it is the Grapevine or the Cuesta Grade, I can drop down into 4th gear and go up the hills (fully loaded) at 65mph no problem.
On the flats and easy hills in 5th gear (think I-280) - any speed is OK. 70mph registers at 3Krpm. |
"GW 2.5 WBX and a 5-speed tranny"
All said and done ... How much 
Just curiosity 
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LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper
No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons) |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I have skimmed through this (yet another) conversion debate. Again you need to do your research and do what you are comfortable with. It took me a long time to pull the trigger too. The wbx was maintained and did do the job, just as intended. (It helps to have been in the German Car Repair business for 50+ years.) But, again just like everybody else, my particular situation dictated what I should do. This last go round the van I got had a damaged transmission (3/4 slider) and the 2.1 original engine with some 200K plus. I again decided on a Suby for my own (valid to me) reasons. ( The difference is night and day and it works for me even though I REALLY love TDIs but just can not justify to spend so much for economy which I will never recoup even adding in the cool factor. We drive two TDIs cars, too.) So read read read. Take a test drive, if you can. Listen a lot. There is a LOT of sage advise around here, too. Be prepared to second guess lots of times. What ever you do, do something so that things are reliable.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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rockfish
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2007
Posts: 740
Location: Palo Alto, Calif.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to get into "religion" or "politics"...as I'm about to tout a GoWesty product - but....
We upgraded to a GW 2.5 WBX and a 5-speed tranny. Could not be happier. Plenty of torque & muscle for hills and with the 5-speed, we cruise very nicely on the highways.
If you're familiar with California highways - whether it is the Grapevine or the Cuesta Grade, I can drop down into 4th gear and go up the hills (fully loaded) at 65mph no problem.
On the flats and easy hills in 5th gear (think I-280) - any speed is OK. 70mph registers at 3Krpm.
_________________
89 Westy
GW 2.5 5-speed trans
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
- John Wooden |
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wenholzm
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| tschroeder0 wrote: |
| wenholzm- I mostly agree, I feel it has much more to do with "smoothness" than speed.. |
Oh I totally agree, drive as if an egg were between your foot and the gas pedal, smooth and steady Scotty. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52690
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ftp2leta wrote: |
I just realize that you have 10,000+ post Wildthings 
I agree, but I'm as south as I can go... legally
You are absolutely right, rust cost money and rust doesn't only destroy the body but everything else including the engine. |
Probably added something of value to the forum a dozen times by now.  |
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tschroeder0
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008
Posts: 2098
Location: Boulder CO
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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wenholzm- I mostly agree, I feel it has much more to do with "smoothness" than speed.
I can tall you that I can cruise all day for a week at 65-70 and have seen no ill effects. The people that I think suffer are the one's who shift hard,brake fast and then repeat that about a thousand times...parts just can't take the beating.
I do completely agree with slowing down and seeing what's out there, it's why I don't really care so much about a powerplant that allows for going faster. |
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wenholzm
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ftp2leta"]
| tschroeder0 wrote: |
Is it truly a bad design or is it the lack of any maintenance for god knows how many years while it was sitting in someone's back yard?
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Another thing that can hurt the engine life - people who drive like the Vanagon is a sports car and can compete with 0-60 in too short a time. These vehicles are torquey(sp) but are not fast and should be driven at 55-60 mph. Back in the days of the WBX engine design the Max speed was 55 mph. Slow down, enjoy the view out of our big windshields and side windows, it is beautiful out there.
Merry Christmas and Peace on Earth |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
Best way to protect your engine and the rest of your car is to stay out of the land of salt. This is one of the big reasons I have chosen to live where I do. The reduced cost saving of owning several cars as my wife and I do is probably around $4-6000 per year. I have owned my pickup for almost thirty years at this point, bought it used with very high mileage. I have had to do the brakes once in all that time, the same for the exhaust. I can probably get another 10 out of most of those parts before they need replacement again. My 91 Multi with a Subi conversion is still running its original exhaust as well. |
I just realize that you have 10,000+ post Wildthings
I agree, but I'm as south as I can go... legally
You are absolutely right, rust cost money and rust doesn't only destroy the body but everything else including the engine.
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52690
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| ftp2leta wrote: |
| Let's say you buy a nice (and perfect) Tenc engine, you get a nice and perfectly built long block with super nice exhaust and sealed intake runner. Good! Now you need to protect the life of this engine by making sure the rest will follow!!! that include the cooling system. |
Best way to protect your engine and the rest of your car is to stay out of the land of salt. This is one of the big reasons I have chosen to live where I do. The reduced cost saving of owning several cars as my wife and I do is probably around $4-6000 per year. I have owned my pickup for almost thirty years at this point, bought it used with very high mileage. I have had to do the brakes once in all that time, the same for the exhaust. I can probably get another 10 out of most of those parts before they need replacement again. My 91 Multi with a Subi conversion is still running its original exhaust as well. |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| tschroeder0 wrote: |
Is it truly a bad design or is it the lack of any maintenance for god knows how many years while it was sitting in someone's back yard?
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Bad to no maintenance win over bad design big time.
On over 14 Subi conversion done this year only 2 VW engine removed had new fuel line!!!!!!! this is just 1 example of very poor maintenance.
That said, sadly, if you want to keep driving with your stock engine at some point you WILL have to invest some $$$$ in the engine and around this one! Not only the oil cooler O-ring but every single gasket/O-ring. It's called a re-seal!
Making sure that all fluid don't get mixed, air/gas mixture is tight. coolant system is strong and well sealed.
If you do so you should be fine for a long time. The question is: how much are you ready to invest in (and around) a 200k mile engine because what I have stated above didn't include any major part/work on the engine itself.
Let's say you buy a nice (and perfect) Tenc engine, you get a nice and perfectly built long block with super nice exhaust and sealed intake runner. Good! Now you need to protect the life of this engine by making sure the rest will follow!!! that include the cooling system. NO NO NO, you just don't leave that old and brittle coolant distributor (2.1L) in there, neither for the old thermostat housing, same goes for all coolant hose around the engine!! What about the rad???, it's 25 YO!!! would you risk your investment (Engine)???
Be ready to invest a good 1000-1500$ in parts around the engine if you want a reliable van/camper. That also goes for Subi conversion or any other conversion.
Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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RGS Paul
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007
Posts: 689
Location: Los Alamos, NM
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Lovin' my WBX, got over 22 mpg on the drive home yesterday and the thing isn't fully broken in yet. I was also able to keep up with all the old 4 Runners that were out there, what I see as a good comparable to the Syncro. Thank you tencent!
Now I just need to replace that torn CV boot…
Merry Christmas ya'll,
Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12177
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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I bought my van w/WBX back in '04 under the expectation that I would be converting it to a TDI along the way. Everyone prioritizes the discretionary portions of their lives/budgets around squeaky wheels and such. Mine so far has failed to squeak loud enough.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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wenholzm
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have had my WBX in a '85 Westy for one year. I had been lurking around these threads for a while and the only reason I bought was with the knowledge that I would/could convert to Subaru, since the WBX was so old.
One year later and 12,000 miles with my WBX, I am very happy with my little engine, Never left me on the road, I have had issues, but the engine is tight and does what I expect. Hills are an issue as everyone knows, but beyond that it is great. I will keep as long as it gets me where I want to go, if I can 100K out of this little engine, all the better.
Can we just be happy with the engine we are with? |
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iltis74
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2003
Posts: 826
Location: Anchorage, AK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| VisPacem wrote: |
| What's the point in relation to the thread |
Well, let's see, from the original post-
| seabeesMCB9 wrote: |
| There are more posts every day inquiring into engine swaps and I was wondering why. |
Then there is me-
| iltis74 wrote: |
| Engine conversions, as far as I can tell, are just the tuning world of the Vanagons. |
It may only be my take on it, but then I only speak for myself. Few people are throwing Subaru motors in their Beetles because with all the people producing aftermarket heads, cams, cases, etc., there is little need. Try and do the same thing to your waterboxer, you'll find you are for the most part alone. Performance aftermarkets are not solely for drag racing, they are for upgrading, changing, having fun with. I don't see much difference in my looking between the 1.8T and the SVX as too very different from trying to decide what fuel injection the Beetle is going to run next summer.
Maybe the thread changed course over four pages, I only skimmed through after the first. |
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VisPacem
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007
Posts: 1143
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| iltis74 wrote: |
Engine conversions, as far as I can tell, are just the tuning world of the Vanagons. I've had a few Splits and Beetles in the past, right now I still have a '74 Thing and a '65 Beetle. The Beetle is equipped with a 2387. The Thing will soon be seeing a warmed-up 2.0 Type IV. When I eventually found myself with a water cooled Vanagon the first thing I did was come on here researching camshafts. Well I hate to break it to you people, but your aftermarket sucks. The biggest, baddest, highest evolution of it is a "kit," of all things, with a whopping 125hp. Really? No one on here bickers about camshafts. There is no talk of exhaust scavenging. Newbies are told to change their fuel lines, not to go with 1.25:1 rockers and a 4-1 collector. It's no wonder I have an SVX with a blown tranny in Moms driveway.
This is a hobby for me, no VW has ever been my daily driver. I'm not looking for the perfect motor, and I'm not looking to get rid of that 2.1 POS. I'm looking for upgrades, and fun, and cool parts, and my fix. Pick up an issue of Hot VW's. How many stock motors do you find there? Not many, so how can I be expected to be happy with just new fuel lines? Ain't gonna happen. |
What's the point in relation to the thread
_________________
LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper
No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons) |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12177
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Volksaholic wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Samba --> Vanagon/Eurovan:
Offbrand = 2109
Volkswagen = 657
Vanagon conversion sub-forum = 0 |
Is this coming from the guy who fills up threads with meaningless pics of non-VW/non-Vanagon conversion pics and Audi and Mercedes ads?
Paul |
Whaaa...?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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iltis74
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2003
Posts: 826
Location: Anchorage, AK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Engine conversions, as far as I can tell, are just the tuning world of the Vanagons. I've had a few Splits and Beetles in the past, right now I still have a '74 Thing and a '65 Beetle. The Beetle is equipped with a 2387. The Thing will soon be seeing a warmed-up 2.0 Type IV. When I eventually found myself with a water cooled Vanagon the first thing I did was come on here researching camshafts. Well I hate to break it to you people, but your aftermarket sucks. The biggest, baddest, highest evolution of it is a "kit," of all things, with a whopping 125hp. Really? No one on here bickers about camshafts. There is no talk of exhaust scavenging. Newbies are told to change their fuel lines, not to go with 1.25:1 rockers and a 4-1 collector. It's no wonder I have an SVX with a blown tranny in Moms driveway.
This is a hobby for me, no VW has ever been my daily driver. I'm not looking for the perfect motor, and I'm not looking to get rid of that 2.1 POS. I'm looking for upgrades, and fun, and cool parts, and my fix. Pick up an issue of Hot VW's. How many stock motors do you find there? Not many, so how can I be expected to be happy with just new fuel lines? Ain't gonna happen. |
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