Cooling System

[DAIZEE]

OK I picked it up at the distant VW Dealer today. Re the cooling system as far as they are concerned I need to order one angled hose asap. Today was extremely hot and muggy! On the city streets (up there) it immediately went to 180 degrees. I didn't like that and I was nervous but went to Cdn Tire to buy the 50/50 coolant. Oh yes it started on the first try with the glow plugs on for about count to 10.

Now they also replaced all the glow plugs and the joiner bar. When they phoned me long distance they told me I needed a new battery, asked their price = over $300.00. Said no thanks I'd get one down here. Well when I came out of Cdn Tire turned the key and NADA, not even a whine let alone a crank! Tried several times. Hooked up my Eliminator and NADA, not even etc... So a fellow came over and asked me if I'd like a jump. I said sure I have very long cables. NADA, not even a whine, not even a crank. I looked and the date on the battery was April 2010 but I don't have the receipt.

The fellow said it had to be something else because when he took the cables off his truck and put them together lots of sparks. Besides me being very hot and muggy and sweating profusely and being "scared" I said what the heck and put the glow plugs on a turned the key and it started up right away!!! So he said not to turn it off until I got home. I'm wondering if it is the ignition which I've been asking for for some time. Temp up to 190 idling at 1000 which I think is kinda high for idle in neutral.

Phoned the VW Dealer several miles down the street and he reminded me that these old vans often had to be driven to cool them off. So I thought, heck I'll go for it.

I came back country paved roads with lots of curves and hills (which is the way I would have driven home before the breakdown 1 week ago today). Mostly stayed at 195, sometimes less and sometimes a very slow creep up to 210. I'm nervous but decided to keep going (I'm doing about 50 mph) I see that the temp goes down and up very gentley repeatedly so I'm gaining confidence. Yes I had checked the fluid levels BEFORE I left the VW Dealer.

So I'm home and SB is in the parking lot. I am going to phone an experienced long time Vanagon mechanic and make an appt for a complete go over (& to get that hose) before I make my decision re trip. What I want to do is get a GREAT BIG FAN for that bl**dy cooling system!!! Even if he has to drain the new coolant I want the fan and radiator REALLY REALLY checked out!

So all future posts will be back on Scooby Blu's post. Keep tuned for my ultimate decision and check up. Wonder how cold it gets in Nfld in October? See you on Scooby Blu's thread!
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[DAIZEE]

Thanks all. That is my plan to take it to another diesel Vanagon expert. My funds are just real thinned out but I promise no decisions yet. If I can get it all taken care of and if I have some $$$ for travel I will most likely still put it up for sale, waiting for the right person to come along. I will probably sell it with all the outfitting I've done BUT I still want to do Vt, Ma, N.S., PEI, Cape Breton and Nfld. I'd like to say I've been to the furthest east place of North America. Sorta kidding but as a person who has lived Mtl thru B.C, and now seemingly a permanent resident of Central Canada, its a dream that I would like to fulfill. If I get to do it in SB it will be okay that it is the fall, it has a automatic thermostat furnace and I prefer fresh air, than hot and humid.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[funagon]

[bridgetroll13]

I would second everything that xoo00oox said. I have been where you are (last year transmission self destructed 1 week before 1200 mile round trip vacation right after installing rebuilt motor; it cost twice what was estimated to get each fixed (made huge dent in savings)).

You have put a lot of time and money to get to where you are now. Look on VWdiesel.net for info and maybe someone near you who is familiar with the engine and putting it into a Vanagon.

Don't give up!

Erik

'82 Westy, AAZ, AAP 5 spd

[xoo00oox]

There is no reason that this van you have spent tons of time and money on can't be made to run with a good amount of reliability. Don't thow in the towel yet. Maybe try to find another small vw shop you can send it to and have them do what is needed and not returned until they have road tested it on a highway for a couple hour run. The engine in you're car is very reliable. I think there is just something still being missed as others have suggested. The coolant cap should blow off excess pressure before blowing hoses if they are in good shape. I would make sure the overflow vent is not plugged, replace the pressure cap and radiator if you have not already done so.

[snowsyncro]

Wow, sorry to hear that, Z. After all your work...you must be shattered.

Maybe something to consider for next year...

I have a couple of Westies here, both 1990 Orly Blue Metallic (sounds like you are partial to blue). One full camper, one Multivan. Both off the road right now for repairs, but I should have at least one fully rebuilt by next year. If you can get yourself and your dog down here, you can take it to Nfld., and get that month Newfoundland portion in anyway. Heck, you may even decide you like Nova Scotia so much you will do the whole month here! You could easily spend a month touring here and not see it all (ask Ben), and it keeps you closer to me for repair calls.

Think about it.

RonC

[SteveVanB]

Go for it! The journey is 1/2 the fun, right? I'm taking my reletively untested van up to D.C. in Nov.........All of the sudden, I'm gettin' nervous.....
_________________
91 CARAT

[GrindGarage]

I had bad experiences with my cooling system as well. Most of the problems for me occurred when the weather was below freezing. I would have to bleed my cooling system at about 300mi. Did this at least 5 times until I tried to go to vt on xmas eve. Never made it out of NJ and after breaking the bleeder bolt and inching my way almost 100mi home I parked the van and let it be for a couple of weeks. When I finally rolled up my sleeves to figure out what was going on I found that the rubber hose that goes from expansion to overflow tank had small pin holes in it.

Seems like that explained why the expansion tank was always overflowing when it came time to bleed the system. I guess that as the motor cooled after driving instead of pulling coolant back into the system it was moving in air. Anyway 3,000+ mi later and still going good.
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[morymob]

DAIZEE= sorry about your 'burnout', been there, in '92 on my 1st one. spent about all yr in 'learn mode' and stopped on the road steaming ,etc. After finally doing my own fix (2) i ran a cople yrs and 2nd one came along in '96, sold a yr ago and has passed 350k now. On my 5th, '88 westy,road testing . I do all my own work so that kept price low, but never was concerned about the wbx engines reliability, many miles, trips and not let down. I wont say 'sleep on it for awhile', i usually park and do something for awhile/and finances. Good luck, another may just show up later.

[DAIZEE]

I've just got driven home from Newmarket again (this time in a 2011 Passat Stn Wgn). Took the GO up to pick it up. Talked with the Technician and he reported that the rad is fine and ditto the fan. He drew my attention to one hose which does need replacing asap. Its the same hose that the tow truck driver identified. It's a custom hose. Mine is very soft when cold and as it takes a sharp turn it will choke off when hot. They filled it with coolant and burped it several times in different positions. I was told that I should not have been running water in the system. I had thought that too but I had been assured that water was fine for now. It has to do with evaporation and boiling points.

So other than getting that hose everything was fixed and they did me right with the bill too. Very considerate of my senior status. BUT

I couldn't get it started. Tried and tried, used my Eliminator, the mechanic came out, then another mechanic came out and did some tests. Tried their shop Eliminator, didn't/wouldn't start with or without the glow plugs onbut ascertained that the message was getting to the plugs, they just weren't paying attention. Initially it was thought that I had flooded it. They did something that should have meant it should have started regardless. Even the Service Mgr was out. Remember that I had been having trouble starting it since I got it back from an engine exchange due to previous mega coolant failures. Also they discovered that several of the vacuum lines were badly frayed and a new fuse box set up was totally corroded from again the previous mega coolant failures. Just rotted. I remember it new. I'm wondering now how much damage was caused by the coolant breaks.

Cut to final diagnosis after an hr of 2 mechanics (no charge) and they found that #1 glow plug was jammed in and cross threaded on an angle and it was leaking fuelspect that many of these problems were created by the previous melt down of plastic T's, connectors used in the initial conversion. They have now been replaced with metal. I had my head right in there when they were tracking the problem down.

Shortly after the engine replacement there had been a fuel leak and it caused the person who did the conversion and then the replacement a lot of problems but I had been assured that it was fixed and to get on the road. Managed to get the #1 glow plug out and testing it grounded nothing, not even a faint glimmer.

Because this is an old Jetta diesel it has a piece of metal that joins the glow plugs, fortunately they are able to order this from their wharehouse. So that glow plug connector rod, 4 glow plugs and labor is a reasonable (but not cheap) $$$$. BUT if they have to retap #1 glow plug chamber then they have to take the accelerator and a bunch of stuff off the engine so that they have a direct (non angled) line into the chamber to retap. Well that's going to really really hurt BUT service mgr assured me that if they can do it without removal of all then that will keep my labor costs down, otherwise it is a 6 hr job.

So I'm looking at from $500 to $1000 dollar repair for really old worn out, glow plugs that were run in my van for less than 20 hours, glow plugs and the joiner rod and replacement vacuum hoses. There is a total of 73 hrs on the engine gauge from the initial conversion. The replacement engine went in at around 55 hrs and its now at 73 hrs.

Am I p*ssed off? You betcha! I would have expected this to be part of the conversion and/or replacement engine. Obviously I'm wrong to have assumed that and also very gullable. I believe it all goes back to those initial high quality (and they were tested up to 250 degrees) plastic connectors in the coolant system and old hoses that should have been replaced. So much easier to have done it all then, the costs would certainly have been less in the end.

Will pay it and then put van up for sale. This has thinned my bank acct for the trip just too much. No safety net left. So the dream is over, the bucket is empty now but not for the right reason.

I will still take it to a vanagon expert next week for a complete check up as I think that is the responsible thing to do prior to selling it. I am going to be taking a mega loss on all that I spent on outfitting it for 2 X 3 mth trips. Was also going to try Az & NM for the winter. Never been there and I'm tired of Fl and other than Corpus Christi, I'm not interested in the Rio Grande Snowbird flock.

Many many of the employees, mechanics and mgmt came out to admire the van. They told me that a lot of their customers stopped to look at it. They parked it where it could be seen.

I also watched how the experts put tint on windows. Man this guy was good not just fast. He has it down to a fine art and he makes it look easy but of course its not.

So my Vanagon days are over (I'm pretty sure), the rust on the knife is that when I sell it I will have $$$ in the bank but not the expected pleasure. I really really liked driving this van, really nice ride. Liked it much better than the Westy even. Like I connected with Scooby Blu. I took it from a really dirty, rotten van to a clean, fresh fun interior. Besides my $ (and I would have paid more if asked at that time even before I got my hands on it) I put a lot of elbow grease and love into it. Lost count of the number of toothbrushes I used. It's simple I loved Scooby, we connected. I promise that SB will be as perfect as she can be when up for sale, mechanically especially.

I want to thank the people that have private messaged me with info and support and encouragement and all who have contributed to this thread.

New name should be 'one stranding too many! without ever really having gotten on the road!!! ' Mths and mths of problems have just worn me thin.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Californio]

I would also confirm that the fan is functioning properly. A highway test won't accomplish this.

[kamzcab86]

[Californio]

I'd be a bit nervous about going on a long trip like this. There is some specific problem with your cooling system, and it sounds like no one to date has told you what it is. That problem needs to be identified and remedied before you go.

The fact that you have replaced all those parts simple means that no one has diagnosed the problem. Twenty parts don't go bad at once.

The cooling system is quite simple. Coolant moves around in tubes and is cooled by the radiator, which in turn is cooled either by wind or by the fan.

If the coolant doesn't move, it is either a pump problem or a blockage (radiator or stuck thermostat.)

If the coolant isn't there, you have a leak.

If the coolant isn't getting cool, you have a radiator or a fan problem.

It's pretty much just that simple. Find someone who can diagnose the problem without throwing parts at it. Much easier in your home town than on the side of the highway...

[bjrogers86auto]

That's what us firemen do...help others. If I can be of assistance I most definitely will help. Just don't catch fire!

We plan on taking off on Sunday for our Staycation. Staying local, N.S. and N.B. 3 weeks of westy life...half the speed...twice the pleasure!

Even after 14000kms last summer of almost incident free driving I still am never sure....but that's part of the adventure.

Brian.
_________________
2020 T@B 320 Teardrop(Has been van guy)
21 Ford Ranger XLT
19 Honda Civic Hatchback

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin and Hobbes.

[DAIZEE]

Great comments. To the best of my knowledge all the plastic fittings in the coolant system have been replaced with metal. As for the radiator I asked VW specifically about that. It appears to be fine. They did a 45 minute road test (highway also) after the repair and a 2nd pressure test. I'm going to pick up a bunch of clamps of various sizes also. Some of the spring loaded are pretty darn old. I plan to make a Libby Bong.

I will be contacting a Vanagon expert with an established business for a complete mechanical inspection next week AND as I've said several times I will do my own road tests (I also record all the data - 4 gauges plus engine hrs gauge). I realize that all could go well and I could still break down (its a Vanagon). New tires, new wheels, new brakes, all new cooling, jetta TD conversion 1.9L TD AAZ, new bright bulbs (but I don't drive at night)and new exhaust.

If I have radiator problems then I will have to track down a source and installation. At least I will be able to sleep in the van as I will have my companion dog with me so no stress about needing to be home.

If, just if, I have ongoing problems then I will just have to get it fixed and limp home BUT I will have tried!!!

Right now taking each day by day before making the decision to cast off. Mtl is 5 hrs from Toronto so say 6 to 7 hrs. Will stop several times to walk the dog. I think I can get there on one tankful of diesel but of course once the trip omoter gets to a certain figure I will refill until I get a feel for my distances. That will change south and east of Mtl thru Vt & Me when I get into hills and mtns.

I'm going to stop by the fairgrounds (well across the street) and see if any of the Vanagons are in the areain Freyburg, Me. Maybe there will be one or two left over from Vanatube. Then I'll probably head for the coast. But I'll make decisions along the way. If I come to a great place for the right price and I feel like staying up to a week, then I will.

I figure roughly one mth to get to Nfld, one mth there and one mth back. I want to do the Saguney(?) on the way back for sure. I'd really like to travel off the big highways where possible.

I carry tools, spare belt and 2 pairs of nylons, water, oil, 1.5 gal diesel, spare water pump, spare master brake cylinder. I'm not very strong but I manage. Oh yes and I have my Bentley but I'm not sure that it covers the Jetta TD conversion. I tried figuring out where the thermostat was the other day but the diagram didn't look what I have.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[snowsyncro]

I would do it!

It is really not that long of a drive. The T-dot to here is 18 hours driving the speed limit, say 24 at vanagon speeds. I have done it many times in one stint (in a car mind you). Then four hours to Nfld ferry, say 5 - 6 easy.

Then you are there -- easy-peasey!

If you break down here Brian (bjrogers86auto) is always ready to jump in and help!

Kidding -- I won't commit him to anything, but I can help around here if you need it.

RonC

[Bruce Wayne]

did you replace the radiator? if it has blockage it could affect the whole cooling system. I will be leaving next week for Red Rocks,Co. about 3500 miles round trip,not sure how far your planned trip is for.if you have towing coverage on your insurance,go for it!

[DaveCA]

Lots of good advise from others.

How old all the rubber and plastic parts you put faith in? The van needs to be tested and inspected by someone who's seen all these problem 100 times before. Then, because we are all only human, have it gone over again by someone else who's seen all this before 100 times. It's the only real way to determine whether the van is in good shape.

Otherwise working on an inner peace and enjoying the experience is all there is for you when it breaks.

A hakedown run after a patch job is only good for the period of the test.

Enjoy the trip!

[bjrogers86auto]

I know exactly what you are looking for...and none of us can provide it for you...confidence in your van. Even a few short successful trips can end up with the next one being a breakdown. Sad but true.

All of these issues provide you with the experience and knowledge of your van. This is worth as much as a CAA membership. For me, a check by someone who knows the vans and you know and trust, would send me on my way.

If you make it to Montreal you can always check in at Ben's. I don't know the others on the rescue squad but they are out there. There is so much to see on this coast and we would sure be happy if you make it. Nothing ventured...nothing gained is a pretty good phrase for today. Or...f*** it! I'm goin! Whatever fits.

Brian.
_________________
2020 T@B 320 Teardrop(Has been van guy)
21 Ford Ranger XLT
19 Honda Civic Hatchback

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin and Hobbes.

[bridgetroll13]

I have an AAZ in my Westy. I replaced the stock 1.6 diesel myself. The upgrade has not been without lumps and bumps. Rereading your original post it seems strange that there would have been so much air in the system