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Bern
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2004
Posts: 152
Location: Issaquah, WA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Been awhile since I've been on here, and even longer since I saw my old van drive away with the new owner. Cool to come across this thread. Although I wonder where my old van is now? There were plenty of things I wanted to complete on that swap, it could have been done cleaner but I was a tight time crunch. To those who were wondering, I actually had the VR6 sitting higher than was neccesary because I was looking for as much ground clearance as possible.
Now I have a new van, and I may considering doing a VR6 again, but keep it under the stock decklid.
Thanks for the kind words. And hopefully I'll start making a habit of surfing the samba and keeping up on things.
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VR6 Vanagon. Yup, it vrooms and stuff. |
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peaceful warrior
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005
Posts: 5275
Location: Taoswest, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Glad I found this thread! I have been offered a complete 2000 Jetta with a VR6, less some body damage on the left side. Mechanically sound, low mileage (60K). The owner wants $750 for the whole car. I was thinking along the lines everyone has mentioned, to either put it in my 87 Syncro or my 89 Westy (2WD), though leaning towards the Syncro.
If any of you would, is this a decent price? I know nothing about the VR6's. Thanks!
_________________
"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2725
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah if you have the ability to make the wiring harness a simple plug and play with the vanagon I am totally interested. Yeah I was thinking the same about shipping an engine. I am unfamiliar with the vr6 wiring so this could make my life easier. Pm me.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2725
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm in upstate NY by the MA border, too far away to make shipping an engine worth it. You should be able to buy a AAA VR6 local to you. I can send a harness for not too much. The OBD1 I have is the coil pack type. better for you because no distributor sticking out toward the transmission. The coil pack can be located anywhere the plug wires will reach to. |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Xoo00oox,
Let's work out a deal. I would be willing to have you take care of the harness and buy an obd 1 vr6 from you. Where are you located?
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2725
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| If you need a hand with the wiring harness I can make one for you that will only require about 4 wires for you to hook up. I have 2 complete engines/transmissions/suspensions sitting on my floor, OBD 1 and 2. I can hook up a fuel pump and start them on the floor to test wiring. Also keep the diagnostic plugs so you can scan it. I just made one for some ice racer guys this past winter. |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MKIII iz KING wrote: |
lots of misinformation in here.
allow me to clarify a few things for you guys |
??? 
I don't believe any misinformation has been stated about fitment, and you've just restated the same info posted more or less. The real issue at hand here is which year VR6 would be the best candidate. I vote that being a 12V OBDI or II motor that has the simplest electronics package (no DBW). Yes the 24V and R32 motor mount the same, but getting the electronics and VVT systems to work in a Vanagon would get very difficult. Issues of immobilizers and DBW are just a few and all cost extra $$.
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early OBDI AAA VR6s where distributor engines '91 thru '93 found in the B3 passats and early corrados (edit: Many 93 Corrados are coilpack)
'94 and '95 are still OBDI but turned to the coil pack for spark
these are found in late model B3 passats, early B4 passats and early MKIIIs
'96 thru early '99 are OBDII VR6s found in late model B4 passats and MKIIIs
when the MKIV came around it is still the same 12v VR6 from '99 to '01
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All of those you quote are the same 12V block and head. No differences other that distributor vs coilpack and single vs. dual timing chains, and of course intake manifold systems. Of which all of those engines can run with the appropriate parts. As you do point out.
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in '02 they introduced the BDF 2.8 24V VR6 in some GTIs and early GLIs
this utilized variable valve timing. the block is still the same but the heads have changed. the BDF was used from '02 thru early '04 |
Disagree here. The 24V block and 12V block are not the same internally. A 24V head will not bolt up to a 12V block and vise versa. Yes engine mounts are the same, but the ancillary components required would make conversion a nightmare.
And actually the 24V 2.8 first appeared in North America in 2001 (before the GTI) on the Eurovan.
You've addressed engines, but with no mention of each years operational differences (other than coil pack vs. distributor). Drive by wire was introduced in later years of the 12V, plus the intake manifold differences. Getting the later ECU to work with the immobilizer system is an issue...etc.
Doing a conversion entails more the just mounting it. Someone undertaking this route is likely looking at a more or less complete engine (i.e. includes throttle body, intake, maybe ECU...etc.), and knowing the issues adapting each is very important to the conversion process.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
Last edited by James 93SLC on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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So clean. I hope I can make mine look that good.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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carterzest
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2008
Posts: 3841
Location: Eagle, ID/Sun Valley, ID
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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from the Vanagon gathering White Salmon thread...This smelled like my brand new 1997 GTI VR6..simply amazing conversion...
Beautiful custom rack
Power!
Under the VR6
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Happiness=Portland, Oregon in the rearview mirror! |
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MKIII and Sons
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 271
Location: penn
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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lots of misinformation in here.
allow me to clarify a few things for you guys
early OBDI AAA VR6s where distributor engines '91 thru '93 found in the B3 passats and early corrados
'94 and '95 are still OBDI but turned to the coil pack for spark
these are found in late model B3 passats, early B4 passats and early MKIIIs
'96 thru early '99 are OBDII VR6s found in late model B4 passats and MKIIIs
when the MKIV came around it is still the same 12v VR6 from '99 to '01
in '02 they introduced the BDF 2.8 24V VR6 in some GTIs and early GLIs
this utilized variable valve timing. the block is still the same but the heads have changed.
the BDF was used from '02 thru early '04
when the '04 R32 was introduced it was essentially the same engine but with a 3.2 bottom end and larger ported head.
AAA designates a 2.8 12v VR6 good for 170hp
BDF designates a 2.8 24v VR6 good for 201hp
the blocks may have subtle internal differences but the mounting points are exactly the same. I.E. you can bolt MKIII 12v mounts onto a MKIV 24v and vice versa.
hope this helps
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Got it. Thanks James.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| casey79westfalia wrote: |
James,
You mentioned that all engine until 2002 are similar, here is a 2000 and it looks like this.
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Same engines...different manifold systems.
That's a 12V with the plastic intake manifold. Under it, it's the same old block and head that the Corrado has.
I think it was starting the mid 1999 year that got the plastic manifold on the 12V motor. Then in 2001 only the Eurovan got the the 24 Valve VR6 (different block and head than the 12V) and then in 2002 the Golf got that motor, which then was increased in size for the 2004 R32 Golf.
Any 12V motor from 1992 to 2001.5 is the same as far as the head and block go. Even the early distributor motors can be run as a coil pack with the correct timing chain covers.
There is now a 3.6 Liter VR6 powering the Audi TT, Passat and Toureg.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
Last edited by James 93SLC on Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PaulGinAZ
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Chandler, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Casey I am currently in the process of swapping a 12V OBDII VR6 into my Tristar Syncro which has quite a bit more deck clearance than a Vanagon. With that being said if you are looking for a VR6 motor in the Baltimore area I would refer you to Dave Graf the owner of New German Performance up in Aberdeen, Maryland. He is a personal friend of mine and is a great resource for finding such a beast.
As far as differences between the various VR6 configurations it is going to fundamentally come down to the early ones (1992-1993 Corrado and Passat) being a distributor-based OBDI motor and the later ones are all coil pack motors and OBDI till 1994 and OBDII afterwards. All of them have the same basic specifications until 2000 when the mkiv Jetta/GTi cars came out and they changed intake manifolds to the picture you posted above. After 2003 you had the option of a 24v motor in 2.8 guise and then the R32 motor right after that.
Either way the VR is a very stout motor and has one of the best sounds in a modern passenger car. 
_________________
-1989 Syncro Tristar TDi on Air Ride
-1980 Scirocco "S" with 16v Oettenger
-1996 VW Cabrio VR6 turbo
-2014 Silverado 1500 High Country
-2010 BMW X5 3.0 Sport (wifes) |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:23 am Post subject: |
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James,
You mentioned that all engine until 2002 are similar, here is a 2000 and it looks like this.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Here are some pics of the above vr6 install. I am using this as my inspiration. I actually dont mind the raised decklid when I realize how clean it could be done. Plus I actually like the idea of having storage/tool compartments right around the engine when a problem arises. Even a nice light on the lid so that I can see the engine compartment at night. This is gonna be fun.
My biggest concern is the wiring. I am sure that I can do the mounting and get it to look good in there. What I am not sure of is how I am going to make sense of how the wiring connects to the vr6 and all the computer related stuff. I am going to study all the vr6 swaps so i can get it clear in my head.
[/img]
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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James,
I miss my corrado slc so bad. That motor was the best vw ever built. I will keep you posted on the progress. I want to document it well so others can do the conversion and we can all improve on each others mistakes.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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FYI One thing that I don't like about the later motors (AFP I think) is the plastic intake manifold. They have a rod inside them that changes the runner harmonics at higher RPM, and they wear and rattle over time.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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That's right. The 24 valve didn't appear till the 3.2 liter.
Yes, later OBDII motors with the coil pack ignition will be the best donor.
If compression #'s look good, you can freshen the motor with new timing chains/guides, and maybe the headgasket if you have the $.
Please post updates on your conversion. I might follow that route instead of the Bostig. I love the VR6 in my Corrado and would love to do one in the van.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. So up to 2002 the vr was 2.8 12v. Thats the motor I would feel most comfotable working with since its what I had in my old corrado. Ill most likely find a good vr6 motor and rebuild it to insure its quality before the install.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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