Don't use Stainless Steel coolant pipes

[91syncro]

My plastic coolant lines catastrophically failed at 80k miles, fortunately it was less than a minute of arriving home at which point most of my coolant was gone. Replaced the factory plastic coolant lines with stainless at that point...150,000 miles later I still dont have engine or coolant issues...just sayin.

[AdrianC]

[SL12572]

I hate to keep bringing this topic up, but I find it interesting that people want to discredit facts and use opinions.

Corrosion due to dissimilar metals is a problem. There is no arguing that. With aircraft, I have to inspect and deal with it all the time. They use dissimilar metals in aircraft due to weight and strength, but are usually protected with a barrier of various products, such as alodine, zinc chromate, mastinox, and many others.

Now back to the coolant pipes. I find it funny that someone would say "hey, I had plastic pipes and my heads are corroded, so the coolant pipes are not the problem". I never did say that the pipes were the "only" problem. I'm also going to say that you may not see a corrosion difference between plastic and stainless.

The point I'm trying to make is that we are aware of a head pitting/corrosion issue. People will slap on a set of heads without properly sealing them, then they will buy a nice and shiny set of stainless coolant pipes and years later, they will say the WBX is a bad engine due to seeping / pitted heads. BUT, if you actually take the time to do things right and understand corrosion, you may avoid the problem all together.

I'm sure TK and RMW puts out a top notch product, but I feel stainless is a wrong choice. I will be using aluminum pipes with my newly built WBX.


Scott

[Terry Kay]

Thats on a direct contact bolt on trans.
That might cause problems.

Figure this;
The pipes are isolated from the engine with the hoses on each end--if in fact this cavitation fairy tale is a bonified problem.

BUT WAIT--There's more!!!!

RMW purveys satinless replacement coolant distribution blocks for 2wd's & Syncro's, Plus the water pipe on the left hand side of the engine!!

Better send them all back to Mike for an immediate refund for those of you that have them--these are surely going to melt your engines RIGHT NOW!!!

This pipe is a direct bolt onto the engine affair and will surely turn the interior of your engine to immediate white corroded aluminum!!!!

BUT WAIT--there's still more!!!

There is somebody out there distributing water pump to the thermostat by-pass stainless pipes & the stainless pipe that runs from the oil cooler to the water pump--

Better get them off prior to your engine turning to Jello & get a refund right away!!!!

So according the the Wizard of Oz, between the stainless coolant pipes, the replacement stainless distribution block, the L/H stainless water pump to the thermostat pipe, the stainless oil cooler to water pump pipe, & the stainless by- pass pipe to the thermostat--you all are melting the interior of your engines en-mass.

Folks have had these stainless replacement parts on their Vans for quite some time--with zero negative problems.

But yet--and the only thing mentioned here has been the coolant pipes.

Give me a break--

You guys are beyond comprehending common sense.

I think you've been spinning around in the Mad Hatter Tea Cups at Dizzeyland little too long--
_________________
T.K.

[t3 kopf]

ahh the basic corrosion theory. always good to come back to. but instead of that just simple it down to getting a list of ferrous and non ferrous metals and dont let them touch each other. they used to put a shim between the transmission and bridge of the h-60 that caused the mount tounge on the magnesium transmission to corrode pretty rapidly because if its dissimilarity. if i'm not mistaken the engine case in vanagons is magnesium too right?
or you could put two dissimilar metals together in a cup of salt water and use them to light a light bulb. what fun!
_________________
'90 Carat w/ '95 phase 1 EJ22 OBD2 conversion

[Terry Kay]

You were't supposed to be inflected upon on that one---

Maybe, perhaps it was the TK (Rhett Butler) last line that made you feel that way---

No bumps , no grinds on that post to you---
_________________
T.K.

[Kevinx]

[Terry Kay]

Typo.


I wasn't slamming you, I was just interested to see what the vehicle was and what the service bulletin was all about.
Just curious.

That's All.
_________________
T.K.

[Kevinx]

Wow... Nice hostile response to a constructive comment there TK.......especially since my response BACKED your assertion that it had nothing to do with the use of stainless, and was caused by poorly grounded cooling systems where electrolysis could run rampant. Those plastic tanks were most likely the issue; as they isolated the cooling system components like the radiator better then the metal tanks.. Mustangs and Taurus vehicles could go through a heater core in less then a year@ 7 hours labor a pop.
The deal with Ford was back in the late 90's and early 2K time frame, and at the time I owned a shop. Most of my info came by way of distributors such as Zexel; so I have no TSB numbers to give you, and with the warm fuzzy feeling you gave me. I doubt I would produce it for you; if it was right at my finger tips.

BTW if you want to be condescending. You need to get the basics right. It's
FOMOCO AND NOT FOMCO

[Terry Kay]

Yea--

But that is very similar to Ray Charles leading Stevie Wonder down the maintainence road.

They'll bump off a few walls & curbs on their way--
_________________
T.K.

[insyncro]

Everyone has had "change your fuel lines" beaten into there heads

How about adding, "flush your cooling system"

[Terry Kay]

I don't care who's pipes you use.
Makes no to me.

I don't care what kind of pipes you use.
Plastic, Gold, Silver, or recycled McDonald's soda straws.
Make no to me.

And furthermore I don't care if you ever service your engine or not.
It's your problem not mine at all.

However, in line with the original thought---

And I do want you guys to pack this one away in your hats---
The mecanical nightmares were pissing on the dealership floors--with zero miles on them.
They were junk when they were built & the heads leaked.

And I'll say this again.
it doesn't make one iota of a difference what you have running for coolant pipes, or how many miles you have on the engine --or don't.

The VW flat four, 1.9, 2.1, or whatever displacement engine you might have paid for to have re-manned, WILL LEAK at the head seals--IF you don't take care of the coolant on a regular basis.
Period.

The pipes will not cause any harm to the coolant on thier own.
Period.

Now--

Mr.FOMOCO.

What is the service bulletin number on that heater core & radiator problem, and for what specific vehicle?
I would like to see that--
Most new Fords are running plastic tanked radiators--as well as at the heater cores.
Notice I said "Most" and you were not very specific on a year or model or bulletin number.

Perhap's it's time for somebody to start a Ceramic coolant pipe thread, that was discovered written on the internet so that the rest of the small herd of sheep can follow along---

To be perfectly honest gentlemen, I don't give a damn what you do.
_________________
T.K.

[insyncro]

There is no need to bait TK.
Com'on grow up.
That will just lock another aging and far too lengthy thread.
As stated previously...I have experience with both TK's & RMW's pipes....and a few others.
There are differences between some of them, not just price.
I could throw out all sorts of comments, but I won't.
TK's and RMW's are the top two IMHO.
Lets call it a draw.
Buy whatcha want, from who ya want.

[noganav]

[chazz79]

oem plastic pipes, 250k on the heads and they were corroded to the point of not being reusable.

I think corrosion is directly related to maintainance.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[SL12572]

I also have no dog in this fight.

I never once said that if you install stainless pipes, you're going to have a catastrophic failure due to corrosion on the engine. A phone call to RMW to ask the question proves nothing.

The point is...dissimilar metals promotes corrosion. The more dissimilar metals, the higher chance of a problem.

There's always talks about how the WBX is a waterleaker and that it's a bad engine, yet nobody wants to take the proper steps to analyze the situation and come up with solutions to problems.

Minimizing dissimilar metals, proper sealing of the heads, and frequent coolant changes are all good things to do.

I know why TK wants to fight this subject. Because he sells stainless pipes. If he didn't I'm sure he would agree, being the perfectionist that he is.

Scott

[Kevinx]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but spent many years as a master tech, and basic line tech in my own shops, and dealerships. So take this with whatever grain of salt you wish.
Not that long ago Ford had heater cores, radiators, and press fit tubes rotting away, bursting ,and allowing all kinds of problems. The initial fix was to replace intakes that had stainless tubes press fit into them, but even cars without the tubes were experiencing the problem. Turns out the solution was to make a good ground lug from the radiator to the chassis, and to use a hose clamp to secure a wire to the heater core tube, and properly grounding it to the chassis as well. Thus grounding the system on the two storage ends. After that was done. Heater core, and radiator replacements went the way of the DoDo bird

[Terry Kay]

That was my original intent anyway---

Making them a bullet proof & long lasting fix.

I've always had the Mack Truck repair mentality--
Do it right the first time or it'll come back & bite you.
_________________
T.K.

[insyncro]

[Terry Kay]

Your right on top of the situtation.

Remember & think about the high speed spinning water pump impeller & shaft causing direct drive cavitation right on the back of the block.

I'm quite proud of Mike at RMW for jumping in there and supplying the herd with what they talked themselves into.

Self inflicted marketing campaign.

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the aluminum pipes.
They just aren't required, and might be a bit of overkill that's all.
_________________
T.K.