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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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 Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| daebir wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
I kinda think it needs to move a little more, like 14, 15mm, 16mm?
There is "a distance" that eliminates the need for the spacer.
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I have a new (less than two year old) smallcar bell housing, metal slave, smallcar clutch etc. and the spacer but also have some pedal slop so am planning to remove the pedal to fix the slop and thought I ought to move the clevis pin hole at the same time.
My main motivation for moving the clevis pin is to gain more pedal travel and clutch modulation.
<snip>
the clutch action on the Vangon with the SC bellhousing just feels 'wrong'. I'd like it to feel 'right' again.
I'm happy to leave the spacer in to save the slave from blowing out.
I have read the whole thread and would like to know if 13mm is still the way to go or should I move the fork back to gain another couple of mm? |
It's a long read and I commend your perseverance.
And I'm impressed that you appear to understand.
Some of the concepts involved are pretty difficult when you add the vagaries of the beginning/end positions of the slave dependent upon
the clutch disc thickness  (new? old? wrong?)
AND
the bellhousing 'width'.
There are a LOT of variables, tolerances.
Smallcar should be the king of this info, not me.
And they should publish the proper clutch disc thickness.
It pains me to say this in y2024,,, that there is a 'numerical equivalency' and we don't even know it, all we have is:
"13mm offset but use the fluid output limiter spacer because we don't know any better".
I'm positive there is a better number between 14 and 16mm
where the
clutch is softest
the modulation is "smoothest"
the spacer is not required because the master output has been numerically matched to the slave input
Not by guessing, but direct numerical calculation.
It's a simple calculation, if we had the VW Jetta fluid output volume.
Without this simple number, we're throwing darts.
This concentric slave/bearing is brutally reliable on VW Jettas - without a "fluid output limiting spacer" 
You might ask….. “why try any other numbers when 13mm& a spacer works?”
Every mm "closer to the ideal", your clutch gets softer & smoother..
But there is a limit as to how close you can get the clevis to the Vanagon pedal pivot axis with “just a re-drill”.
Since 2021 I've heard NOT a single peep from anyone on this.
SmallCar could offer a pedal exchange kit that will make their customers very happy.
I bet an exchange program is a PITA to manage though
-PLUS- all the customers are gonna want it for free.
But this could be a popular mod for the thousands of Smallcar owners,
that will make them happy when they use thst soft & buttery clutch.
Anyway I'd try 14mm......you could be the 14mm guy!
==========
Maybe ignore all the above unless you're a hardhead,
it's safe to go with "13mm and a spacer", simply because it has been tested.
It will make your pedal 20% softer
and you will have silky smooth clutch modulation.
Be use to read the notes on these gallery pics:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2230768
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2311430
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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daebir
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2024
Posts: 1
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| Sodo wrote: |
I kinda think it needs to move a little more, like 14, 15mm, 16mm?
There is "a distance" that eliminates the need for the spacer.
|
I have a new (less than two year old) smallcar bell housing, metal slave, smallcar clutch etc. and the spacer but also have some pedal slop so am planning to remove the pedal to fix the slop and thought I ought to move the clevis pin hole at the same time.
My main motivation for moving the clevis pin is to gain more pedal travel and clutch modulation. I'm a manual transmission driver since forever (40 years - 1967 Volvo, 1971 VW Type 3, 1976 Honda Civic, 1969 VW bus, Kia, Dodge Colt [but really a Mistubishi], 1988 VW Vanagon [recent EJ25 SOHC swap], and 2018 VW Sportwagen) and the clutch action on the Vangon with the SC bellhousing just feels 'wrong'. I'd like it to feel 'right' again.
I'm happy to leave the spacer in to save the slave from blowing out.
I have read the whole thread and would like to know if 13mm is still the way to go or should I move the fork back to gain another couple of mm? |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| r39o wrote: |
| No spacer needed. Just the modded pedal. |
That's what I thought, until i blew a brand new (metal) slave.
Wow that was a fiasco so now I have a spacer.
If you did this job on a van with a NEW clutch, the spacer is more necessary because the slave/bearing is "more extended" (more rearward) at its start point.
On an older clutch, there's some leeway because the pressure plate fingers are more 'forward', shoving the slave forward away from 'the stop'.
I think the spacer should be used, just to be sure of the master output volume limit.
I would like to know how Smallcar determined the length of the spacer.
But r39o I have some Qs.
I moved the hole 13mm, which I got from a friend.....
who said Fred didn't wanna mod his pedal....
so Fred told him to move his hole 13mm.
This 13mm bidness is 2nd hand info, but it works OK (with spacer).
I kinda think it needs to move a little more, like 14, 15mm, 16mm?
There is "a distance" that eliminates the need for the spacer.
Is 13mm what you were using?
Did you measure the fluid volume output from a Golf master cylinder (etc?)
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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When Fred S and I created our pedal mod it was because Small Car ignored the issue completely.
I forget exactly, but we weld on a new end using some tooling we made.
No spacer needed. Just the modded pedal.
We kind of stopped because people would infrequently return cores and we never could get enough fresh cores to justify the set up time.
But years later my clutch is still butter smooth. No blow outs. It just works. Smoother than stock VW too.
I basically forgot about this topic until I seen it here again.
I am happy.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7208
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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The ratchet strap craddle works, I replaced my first transmission in the streets like that as I didn't have a floor jack. Whatever works!
I think I published a while back the dimensions of the slave cylinder at rest in the bellhousing in relation to the clutch diaphragm fingers/engine block
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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The main reason for the 13mm hole offset was to match the fluid output of the Vanagon master to the Golf slave.
It was proposed that the 13mm offset can eliminate the spacer and also restore proper 'modulation'.
But now I know 13mm is not far enough to match the master fluid output to the Golf slave.
The pivot needs to be moved further inward (maybe 15mm? 16mm?), to eliminate the spacer.
But of course 13mm does improve modulation, widening the friction band by about 20%.
Anyone who does this "13mm" mod should STILL use the smallcar spacer to ABSOLUTELY limit the fluid output.
========
The slave release bearing is spring-loaded against the pressure-plate fingers.
It spins on the fingers full-time, which it can, because it's perfectly concentric.
One detail about this clutch/slave I've realized:
When the clutch components are ALL NEW, the slave extends farther rearward, more towards its 'stop'.
This is a CRITICAL limit, that we cannot see or ascertain.
When I visited Smallcar with a NEW install, they said they could "feel" my slave bumping against the stop.
I was being cocky and didn't use the spacer, because I thought 13mm mod was enough to match the master to the slave.
Which I asserted to Smallcar ..... and they were not convinced.
The (metal) slave blew shortly thereafter.
If 15mm, 16mm etc is sufficient so the nut does not touch the smallcar spacer, ONLY then can the spacer can be deleted.
But we don't know this snd nobody has tested it AFAIK.
As the clutch disc wears thinner, the slave moves away from the "far stop".
Its "when the clutch is new" and the diaphragm spring's fingers are 'farthest forward' that the limit is critical.
Got that?
It should be noted that with a "too thick" clutch disc, the pressure-plate fingers are more rearward, thus will position the start point of the slave "too far" and it may hit the stops when you press the clutch to the floor, even WITH the spacer.
The spacer absolutely limits the fluid output volume, but the spacer doesn't know the slave's 'starting point'.
The starting point is determined by the position of the pressure-plate fingers.
And if the disc is too thick, the pressure-plate fingers are 'farther rearward'
thus the slave's starting position is 'farther rearward' too,
and the slave may encounter the stops
with one full master "pump volume".
Smallcar owners should know that you cannot use a disc thicker than what smallcar specifies,
or it can blow the slave cylinder.
I don't know the disc max thickness, but it may be 'critical'.
Maybe Smallcar will provide it.
IMPORTANT NOTES
1) If you must install a thicker disc, you need to shim the pressure plate out the distance of the over-thickness.
2) You should never press the clutch HARD while there's no pressure-plate. Because the slave is spring-loaded, it's already against its max stops. The clutch pedal (in the van) would only go down a little because the slave is already against the far stop. Pressing the pedal hard will blow the slave apart. Don't press hard if bleeding.
3) You can replace the internal slave without fully "dropping" the trans. I did it by cradling the trans on ratchet straps. Here you can see the trans a few inches forward; far enough to get the slave over the input shaft. Possibly this method may be used to drop the trans to the ground, and perhaps to lift it off the ground too. I only moved the trans laterally in the cradle.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:02 am; edited 2 times in total |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12318
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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I saw that smallcar was offering stan's headers in 2 different finishes recently. This kind of makes sense now.
Good to hear the new owner trying to improve the business. Product support was pretty poor in the past. |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1994
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| ute wrote: |
Hey everyone! My wife and I are the new owners. This forum saved many road trips with the information contained herein.
We are actively working on new products to support the community at large for Vanagon’s and Bay Windows and we will certainly listen actively to improve our products.
If anyone is the PNW and open to a meeting to discuss ideas—DM me.
Thanks for supporting the business. We have been owners for over a year now and we are blessed to support such a diverse and fun community.
Ps—I will be at Syncrofest with shirts, beers, and some of our team. Hope to see some wills there!
Austin |
Austin,
I heard a rumor you also purchased Ovals from Fred's Wife, Is that true?
if so, do you have any plans to combine the two businesses? I would guess the Air Cooled T1 and T2 conversions and extensive inventory at Ovals would make a pretty good business model.
If you look me up in the Small Car system, I have been a customer since 1980, but honestly quit going there when Brian stopped standing by some of his products, such as the first gen conversion headers. I actually was the one (along with @A914622) that went back to Stan to convince him he needs to start making a better header than what Small Car was currently selling.
I am glad to hear that you are going to be active on this forum and listen to your customers to improve your existing products, such as the bell housing.
Congrats on the purchase(s)!
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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Oooops back when I made this image, there were notions that it had a bellows inside (wrong). Here's a cutaway of the metal 0A5141671.
The purpose of this pedal modification:
Moving the hole inward matches the fluid output of the Vanagon master cylinder to the 0A5141761_ GTI clutch slave/bearing.
It is theorized that the larger Vanagon Master Cylinder "overdrives" the 0A5141761_ causing damage. It is likely that drivers who push the pedal hard to the floor, bottoming the slave, 'inflate' the slave, deforming it and breach the slave's static seal (especially on the Plastic version).
With this modification, Smallcar clutch modulation (driving) is soft and silky-smooth.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7208
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| ute wrote: |
Hey everyone! My wife and I are the new owners. This forum saved many road trips with the information contained herein.
We are actively working on new products to support the community at large for Vanagon’s and Bay Windows and we will certainly listen actively to improve our products.
If anyone is the PNW and open to a meeting to discuss ideas—DM me.
Thanks for supporting the business. We have been owners for over a year now and we are blessed to support such a diverse and fun community.
Ps—I will be at Syncrofest with shirts, beers, and some of our team. Hope to see some wills there!
Austin |
Hi Austin!
It looks like you guys are steering SmallCar in a good direction, that's refrshing to hear.
I too will be at SyncroFest, coming from Hawai'i.
Here's a couple for you to address off the top of my mind:
the reverse manifold outlet angle shoots out too high, so the hose gets pinched to connect it to the main Vanagon coolant pipe which sits lower and at a different angle. I have to put a hose clamp over the hose to prevent it from pinching badly.
Also, it's clocked wrong for the EJ25's, I did 2 DOHC from 1997 and an SOHC DBW from 2007, the EGR pipe is dead into the side of it, it's a massive PITA. Then you don't have enough space to slide the hose on it even by pushing the EGR pipe to the side. There's only so much you can push it aside, it's not like it can stretch.
Similar issues with the rubber hose by-pass to install on the metal pipe nipple, the angles are hard to work with. Just needs a slightly different angle on the jig to make it a breeze.
The DBW automatic throttle bracket comes flat, you could sell it more expensive and bent. It was an ordeal to make it look clean and professional, then paint it.
Muffler clamp hardware is a mix of stainless and plated bolts/nuts/washers. Kinda half ass in my opinion.
I do enjoy the kit using the stock WBX moustache bar, that's the cleanest in my opinion.
The thickness of the bellhousing and exhaust headers got addressed over time already, so that's one less thing to complain about.
Sodo does have excellent points for the bellhousing.
I recently re-shaved a couple old ones to make them work better.
Aloha!
Alika
See you there.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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skemems
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2017
Posts: 247
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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Scroll up through this thread some have already pointed out a few items on the bellhousing that can be improved.
I have many of your products and overall I've been happy with them.
_________________
87 VW Westfalia - EJ25
86 VW Westfalia - EJ22
85 VW Westfalia - WBX 2.1 project |
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SCP_Austin
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2009
Posts: 372
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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Hey everyone! My wife and I are the new owners. This forum saved many road trips with the information contained herein.
We are actively working on new products to support the community at large for Vanagon’s and Bay Windows and we will certainly listen actively to improve our products.
If anyone is the PNW and open to a meeting to discuss ideas—DM me.
Thanks for supporting the business. We have been owners for over a year now and we are blessed to support such a diverse and fun community.
Ps—I will be at Syncrofest with shirts, beers, and some of our team. Hope to see some wills there!
Austin
_________________
#leftlanelife |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| skemems wrote: |
| Curious why you went with the plastic version? |
Because the parts guys at VW didn't know there's a metal one 0A5141671P and just recommend the "latest version" 0A5141671R.
And I just assumed the parts guy was pulled off the street with a shepherd's hook.
And because the internal slave/bearing is considered reliable in ~350 VW models for 20 years.
And nobody could tell me WHY plastic wouldn't work for a Vanagon.
Metal-over-plastic preference is just such a 'standard answer' that I discounted it for that.
I don't know that the plastic slave is "no good".
But I've found a "mounting problem" on a 2009 Smallcar bellhousing.
Thats the current state of my investigation.
Well anyway I think we're onto it now.
And after 5x pulling this trans in 2 days I'd even pay $500 for metal,
un-intelligible blessings appreciated too.
Auburn VW has the metal one 0A5141671P for $223
SmallCar has VW OEM 0A5141671S (or T?) for $195
Why didn't I call SmallCar?
Well I guess it's because in the past they were so cagey, the chance that I might get useful information was dicey, it might just be another rabbit hole.
SmallCar seems very different with the new owners. 
I hope they are able to continue the innovation of the old owners, but customer focused.
Changing customer perception is difficult and I wish them the best.
I just returned from a visit to the new Smallcar, met the new owners.
I handled a bellhousing and compared a Metelli all-metal slave to the OEM VW (LUK) all-metal slave. Got pics etc.
But I gotta get back under the van .....so stay tuned...
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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skemems
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2017
Posts: 247
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| Sodo wrote: |
I sure hope the new owners of Smallcar have solved all these problems.
Would have been nice..... if we didn't have to "discover" all of them. |
Thanks for sharing this post, might help some avoid a plastic slave. I have only used the metal ones with no problems.
Smallcar only recommends the use of the metal slave. Curious why you went with the plastic version?
_________________
87 VW Westfalia - EJ25
86 VW Westfalia - EJ22
85 VW Westfalia - WBX 2.1 project |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
What a PITA!!!
I'm always buying the metallic slaves, glad I did.... |
PITA is an understatement.
Trans in & out 5 times.
Driving around town to LOOK at slave/bearings.
What happens is.... you bolt it all in and it's all fine.
The (bench-pre-filled) slave "self-bleeds" as you tighten the bellhousing bolts
and you're at least a little thrilled by that. 
Clutch works, doesn't leak etc.
Then after about 20 minutes, the plastic has had enough due to the stressed/bent ears and it lets the seal loose, and the fluid literally POURS out of the bellhousing.
You take it out and can't SEE anything wrong.
You bench-bleed it and it doesn't leak because the plastic has snapped back into shape and the seal is holding again.
Is it all good now? (who knows?)
^^Here's a diagram^^ of the problem. (---->image edited Apr 22, 2022 ! )
I sectioned a metal 0A5141671F slave but haven't cut into a plastic slave yet....
but I'm inclined to....(Vanagon Science & all) .
--------------
Be sure to check the 3 mounting ears. You want the rear cup to set on its 3 bolting support (ears) equally to the 3 mounting pads for the 0A5141761_'s backside. This may require shimming or epoxy or both.
The depth of the "receptacle" area of the Smallcar bellhousing varies over the years
AND
The depth of the slaves (0A5141761_) vary as well (metal AND plastic slaves).
With the plastic version that I tested, simply bolting the 0A5141761R to the bellhousing bent the ears 0.030", deforming the (plastic) housing. After about 20 minutes the seal breached and the fluid just "pours" out of the slave.
I don't know if the plastic slave is suitable by:
shimming the ears
-plus-
preventing overtravel by pedal mod (or a spacer on the master or pedal limiter)
I don't know of the metal housing prevents this problem entirely.
On my van, using the Metelli (metal) 0A5141761_ the ears were .005" above the ears.
I (perhaps foolishly) decided 0.005" was acceptable, and tightened the bolts.
If I had it apart NOW I would fill that 0.005" space with epoxy or a shim.
See the pic of the metal 0A5141671F slave here.
Deformation of the mounting ear could possibly deform the OUTER cylinder where the dynamic seal slides.
Pretty sure it will be OK but I would shim (or epoxy) if I was in there now......
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:23 am; edited 4 times in total |
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kalispell365
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010
Posts: 889
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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I remember reading and seeing somewhere about a large washer being installed behind the plastic slave, but I have no idea where I read about it.
I only use metal slaves.
_________________
1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7208
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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I figured out what happens in the 0A5141671 Slave/bearing when you over-extend it.
It depends how hard you press on the clutch pedal at the end.
People who push the clutch HARD to bottom-out are not bottoming out on the floor, but bottoming out at the slave cylinder.
Too much pressure deforms the bottom of the cylinder and the static seal lets some oil loose.
It may or may not re-seal.
So you gotta have that spacer limiting the master cylinder
OR
reduce the master cylinder travel with the clutch pedal mod:
------> (CLUTCH PEDAL MOD for SmallCar Bellhousing)
NOTE: if you ^^mod the pedal^^ .....clutch action will become smooth like butter.....much better for a Syncro driven off-road.
^^NOTE the .030" thickness gauge under the mounting ear.
I found another problem with the OLD smallcar bellhousing.
I had 8.5mm machined off to delete the input shaft spacer.
But now I'm trying to use it and it "blows" the plastic slave/bearings.
I found that the plastic slave needs a slightly deeper well than the metal unit.
Consequently the 3 mounting ears warp the housing and the static seal at the bottom lets go.
Installing the plastic slave/bearing onto the "OLD" bellhousing damages the "Plastic" slave.
Theres 2 ways it can be fixed, I suppose.
1) shim it up about .035
2) grind the pads away the prevents the ears from sitting "flat".
I'm inclined to shim it, so the pads are sitting there below to support the bottom I will epoxy the spacers onto the supports.
I have a newer Smallcar bellhousing too, I don't know the year.
I will check the fit of the plastic slave on the newer unit too.
But anyway, if you have a plastic slave, pay attention to the 'ears'.
Another (not confirmed) problem could be the plastic slave is not strong ehough to operate the "HD Pressure plate".
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:51 am; edited 4 times in total |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7208
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10640
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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| Howesight wrote: |
| I recognize that many of their conversion parts are not finished as well as some competitors. What I don't understand,,,,,, |
Yes Smallcar has kept a lot of Vanagons on the road (going fast too!)
What I don't understand is why Smallcar doesn't refine their products as problems are discovered.
So their customers don't have to search the internet for the repairs (some have been known for ten years).
The clutch pedal mis-match problem would be a conundrum though, as Smallcar still claims today, that the clutch is silky smooth. To offer a modified clutch pedal to make it actually silky smooth would contradict that. Everybody knows the release band is narrow and abrupt, but you can get used to it (on the road). Used off-road, especially with a Syncro Granny, is where its most noticed.
Imagine all the customers who wish they fixed the 1/2 inch drain-dam before installing the bellhousing. And the tiny drain magnet. This big engine is gonna make more steel trash in the oil. Owners not only need to drain (all of) that steel out but also monitor & compare with other VW-sized magnet pics.
I don't know of any problems with Smallcar's engine mounts and it's vastly superior to RMW's. RMW should change theirs IMHO. Especially for Syncro.
To advance the cause of Vanagon Science....
In case anyone wants ta know what's going in inside the Smallcar clutch/slave bearing unit.
This slave/bearing was installed in 2008, replaced 2021 because the bearing sounded dry.
VW part 0A5141671E & 0A5141671F
Also cut off a "hydraulic fluid plug" from the business end.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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