1776 overheating problem

OLD VW NUT · Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject:

Another thing to look at - and ofter gets overlooked - is to make sure valves are adjusted properly - make sure ignition timing is working as it should. If you have a timing light put it on your crank and make sure your vacuum and mechanical advance systems are working correctly. An engine with retarded timing will lose some power - but even worse - causes overheating.
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71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore

Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI

jays58s · Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject:

Does it have a doghouse oil cooler? Do you have an oil sump? Is it tapped for full flow? What do you mean by big oil pump? Take a pic and post it. If it isn't doghouse, make it doghouse. If there is no sump, get one. What is the timing set at? I wouldn't run more than 30 degrees total advance on it.

OLD VW NUT · Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject:

Pull your oil plungers and check that the springs are the right kind. Also that the plungers are correct for your engine. One spring will be very short compared to the long one. You should be able to find the right length elsewhere on Samba.

If you have a thermostat controlling the flap system make sure it is expanding properly. If you don't have a thermostat then make sure the flaps are wide open - pointing straight down.

I can't see how an overly large oil pump would cause overheating. Usually having too much oil supply only causes the pressure regulators to work overtime - and leaking seals and blown oil coolers. Better to have too much than not enough - to a point. 40-45 pounds is about right for a healthy engine at anything above idle.

Check the engine air inlet grille above the engine - make sure there are no obstructions. Ditto for the fan. Check the distance between the fan and housing. If an older thinner fan is used in an newer style housing it'll leak cooling air into the engine compartment and not cool the engine.

Check (if you have a doghouse oil cooler) to make sure none of that tin is missing or damaged. There is a lot of heat coming off that cooler and it needs to vent out front of the engine and not into the engine compartment.

The VW cooling system looks simple at first glance - but it is very complex -moreso than a water cooled engine and the simplest of things can cause overheating.
_________________
71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore

Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI

slamdxc1 · Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject:

We checked the releif valves today and the back one closest to the tranny was stuck and the front one had a high pressure valve in it. Mind you the car has a huge oil pump in it already. So we fixed that by putting stock ones back in it and then we checked the oil pressure and it is running a very irratick 35 psi at idle. The needle just jumps crazy from 35 to 40 and it still runs very hot afte driving it about 10 minutes or so. I'm thinking the pump is just WAY to big and that we should just put a stock pump in it. Any thoughts?

slamdxc1 · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject:

Yeah it has the right size fan and it is spinning, and I did check to make sure about the firewall insulation because that happened to my buddy with his bug, lol. We are going to check the releif valves in the nest few days to see if that part of the problem and check the oil pressure too.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject:

slalombuggy · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:

Make sure the fan isn't pulling the insulation off the firewall and closing off the fan opening, I've seen that before. Overheating at idle something is definitely wrong. Are you sure the fan is spinning? Reach back and make sure something hasn't happened that the nut is loose or the half moon key has broken.

brad

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject:

If you are using a DH shroud, make sure you use a DH sized cooling fan. DH used 33, 34 and the last best 35mm between the discs that make up the fan. Non-DH used 29 and thinner fans the earlier you go.

Definitely clean all the casting flash out of the heads and head fins!
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Jody '71 · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:29 am Post subject:

Slam, do us a favor and take some pictures of your engine, both inside the compartment and underneath and post them for us.
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2011 Hyundai Elantra Touring

A Avina · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:39 am Post subject:

Also make sure your oil relief plunger isnt sticking.Someone may have switched out the springs for stiffer or smaller ones causing your cooling system to malfunction.Simple to check and a cheap fix if that turns out to be the problem.

slamdxc1 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject:

The next thing we are gonna do is hook up an oil pressure gauge and see what it is doing. I am gonna try and prop the decklid when I drive and see if that helps but I think there is still an issure somewere because it gets hot just at idle with the decklid open after about 10 min. Thanks for all the replies so far

mcelhaney14 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:11 pm Post subject:

Im running a 64 with a W deck lid without louvers. It is also a 1776 and it doesn't run hot. I don't have stand-offs on it either. Since you said the heads were brazilian ones I would check the fins arounds the ports and see if you can look though them from top to bottom. I once read an article on this in Hot VWs I believe, but can't find it now. Once they drilled out the flashing it allowed the cooling air to pass and significantly dropped temperatures.

cutter57 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject:

I have a 65 Beetle that ran hot. also a 1776 with dual carbs, and I had trouble with engine temps if the temp outside was higher than 75 degrees. The discussion in Rob and Dave"s aircooled volkswagen site is very helpful. I tried everything...all tin in place, even the Hoover bit: adjusted valves, checked timing (as relates to the 009 distributor), tried adjusting carbs richer, tried higher octane gas, even replaced my oil pressure control and relief valves....still overheated. Bottom line: the engine is too big for the amount of fresh air coming thru the louvers above the engine lid. If you look at beetles that were made with a 1600 dual port motor, they have additional louvers in the decklid. I finally cured my problem by propping the decklid open on warmer days (as mentioned above)...dropped my engine temps by 20 degrees. But you have to make sure all else is correct first. The link to Rob and Dave's discussion on overheating:

http://www.vw-resource.com/overheating.html

I hope this helps. I now have a convertible decklid from a 64 I will put on once my car is ready to go to the paint shop (doing a full resto now). I will see how much the extra louvers help.
Good luck
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the enemy of good is better.

hoghead5150 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject:

before pulling the pump and guessing, why not hook up an oil pressure gauge and see what it's putting out?
_________________
"i got a friend that knows a guy who's best friend has an uncle that used to have a bug just like yours!"

i measured once, cut it three times, and the damn thing is STILL to short!

slamdxc1 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject:

both are overheating. Everything is getting hot, after like 10 min you cant touch anything in the engine compartment. We are leaning towards the oi pump being WAY to big because we have made sure all the tins are there and all the valves and everything have bein adjusted. If we take he large oil pump off should it be replaced with a stock size pump?

slammedup66 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:05 am Post subject:

The missing piece of cooling tin being replaced would help your bug run cooler. The tin is a heat barrier to keep cool air flowing over the top of your motor, and the hot air underneath and out side where it belongs. Also a good thing to see if your thermostat and flaps are installed and working properly.

Lobo67VWBug · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:55 am Post subject:

I have a 67 with a 1776 engine and a Dellorto carb. It was also running hot. A mechanic said it was missing a piece of sheet metal, which he put in, to protect the engine from the heat. If this makes sense to the bug aficionados, please elaborate. It has helped a lot. He also replaced the rotor.

I love the idea with the cut tennis ball!! I have to remember that.

slalombuggy · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:29 am Post subject:

What is running hot, the oil temp or cylinder head temp or both? They are kind of 2 different things.

The larger pump may heat the oil up, if it is too large for the engine it might be forcing the bypass to be always open and just circulating the oil back to the sump without going through the cooler. Does the motor have an external oil sump or a pressure gauge?

A 1776 isn't that big of a motor that you have to worry about the intake system robbing air from the cooling fan, but by all means try the tennis ball test and see if you are in need of more air.

brad

morymob · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:12 am Post subject:

Get a tennis ball ,cut a slit and slip on latch for engine lid, this holds lid open enuf to test drive and see if more air needed, if your decision as to a perm mod.


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