1990 Carat Auto/ 2010 EJ25 Build :)

[wjjr]

[r39o]

I made it a point NOT to store boxes in the van! Used the parts as I got them or put them on the table with all the other parts.

You could put a new radiator in, coolant pipes, reseal tank and do other stuff while "waiting."

Once you get a lot of stuff put in, you begin to see light at the end of the tunnel.

I have only a few things to do before I light mine off. My self imposed deadline of June 12th for the VW Classic is coming up fast!
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[wjjr]

Well after 5 dang weeks all I have been able to accomplish is to fill the van full of boxes of new parts and get the adapter plate on! I am still waiting for my oil pan (back order), exhaust manifold (back order), coolant manifold (after rereading everything here, I my have screwed the pooch there as it seems if I go w/ earlier wiring/ecm I'll need an earlier manifold, if I'm reading what Ben was saying correctly), tach returned and 1 more of my brackets. Did get lucky on ebay and found 2 of the 3 brackets I was missing, waiting for those too. Did get really lucky and found an '86 Audi 5000 Turbo auto trans 18 miles from me for $400, talked down from $600, picking that guy up on Saturday As far as budget goes, well that went with the time line!! Not bad, just over $7g's but we have decided to redo just about everything, all the "while I'm there's" if you will. Still need to get brakes, springs/shocks and tires/wheels, that should put us right at $10g's but all new everything, do not feel too bad about that at all Things should really start moving now that I hope!!! As far as the wiring goes, I have been going back and forth on that one, maybe Ben will drop some more of his infinite wisdom on me I have been actively looking for 2006-08 vehicles but haven't had much luck, feel bad secretly hoping for someone to wreck one locally Any how here's a pic of a van full of boxes and the millionth one of a suby with an adapter plate on it

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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[GrindGarage]

I sent my harness with cruise intact and smallcar contacted me. They informed me that it is easier to add it later then try and track it through the harness in my case. I did go through some diagrams and figured it is so. When I do this part of the conversion I plan on documenting it.
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[wjjr]

Thanx guys for the great insight!

Ben, I admire your dedication, innovation and resilience. I appreciate your input/advice immensely, thank you.

With that said I was prepared to get some work done this evening but the out of the blue mini-monsoon we had right when I was getting off work sent me indoors for a bit more shopping/researching/internet wandering and now refocused, so (bad pun alert ) shifting gears to some auto trans shift points adjustment research, good times.

This slow start is killing me but also is helping me go over my notes some more and rethink some things, hoping to get some serious movement this weekend for I am due quite a few packages this week.

Back to the books, Voni and Wayne
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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[ftp2leta]

Tip #3

Look carefully at the engine carrier bar where it's mating with the chassis.
Look at the 1 1/4 spacer block, you need that the clear the lid form the top of engine. with our new engine mount there is no need for such spacers.

_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[pinealservo]

Ha, I left the computer without posting the message I wrote, and meanwhile Ben left a nugget of wisdom. Listen to him, not me.

[pinealservo]

The mix-and-match thing is definitely doable, but it would definitely help to understand how EFI systems work and what all the sensors are for. For example, if your engine come with a MAP sensor to measure air consumption, while the ECU expects a MAF sensor, you're not going to be able to get it to run well, if at all, without grabbing the MAF sensor. Definitely get yourself an OBD-II reader, too. If you have an Android or iOS device, get a bluetooth OBD-II dongle and get one of the slick OBD-II apps. You'll be able to see real-time data from most of the engine sensors that drive the EFI system, and missing or mismatched sensors should show screwy data there.

It's not clear from the conversation so far whether you've got an ECU w/wiring harness yet, but if you're not going to match the computer with the engine, you should probably follow Volksaholic's advice and get that stuff from a pre-CAN vehicle so you don't have to deal with all that mess. Maybe you've already worked that out with SmallCar, though, since you'd need some extra equipment to hook up the drive-by-wire stuff. My 2001 stuff was pretty nice to deal with, and it makes the intake easier since it doesn't require a MAF sensor. I fried an ECU while debugging wiring and was able to pick up a replacement for cheap via car-part.com.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Good luck, keep us posted.

[ftp2leta]

Link



This is an 2010, just finished this one. Harness is from 06-08.

This is the last time I'm saying this, sorry but I'm tired of repeating everything.

Engine: Impreza and Forester 2006 to 2010 all the same EXCEPT for the temp sender!!! on 06-07 it's a 3 pin, 1 for the ECM and one for the dash. 08-10 = 2 pin, the temp is sent to the ECM and back to the cluster, you need to use a second sender on the reverse manifold, a 2.2L one will do and will screw in any early coolant manifold. You CAN'T use a late manifold and reverse this one.

Harness and ECM, do yourself a favor and don't use the 2010. Find a 06-07 Impreza and use this one instead. It's not CAN BUS but OBD2.

You can also use Forester harsess 07-08 but with an Impreza ECM

Forester 2011 engine is completely different.

[/youtube]

CAN BUS harness do work but there are full of obstacle and bug when you mess whit them.

I show a lot of pictures, but I don't show everything, I'm not stupid.

In the past 10 days wile doing that conversion I counted the... how can I say that, let's call them "difficulties" or maybe small stuff that can make your engine blow up in the first 20 minutes or simply don't work.

There is 13...

I will give you one and only one.

Small Car engine mount, the rear part doesn't fit on late engine, it's interfering with the thermostat housing. If you don't grind this one your forcing the left engine mount side.

This is one "glitch".

Voila for #1. Still, I will follow your thread. You may here about some of the other mod you may have to do along the way.

Those fine tuning stuff where find bt me and Hans from Vanaru over the past 5 years, we lost countless hours on them, we struggle hard to fix them. Time is money, sadly.

Haaa, I'll give you another one, drive by wire (between harness and gas pedal location, no matter whats the length) ... wire gage (size) and is it shielded... SHIELD this one big time if you don't want to end up with a Toyota like problem.

Regards, Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[Volksaholic]

[wjjr]

The wiring I am biting the bullet and sending it into SC, pricey and I definitely received the "we strongly suggest getting the wiring from same car as engine" talk from Brian but I am pretty sure that is a "CYA" thing for just in case. Just using the harness and their ECM, so should be just fine, no worries there really. I am expecting to get 20/25 mpgs but we'll see w/ the automatic. To make the harness a little more of a pita I am trying to get it from one w/ cruise control as well, not a huge priority but would be nice. As far as manuals for the Suby I am considering signing up for one of these guys, AllDataDIY http://www.alldatadiy.com/index.html Or Mitchell On Demand http://www.eautorepair.net/app/YearsMakes.asp like ETKA, but for any car you pick (wish you could subscribe and search any car)

Happy Easter Bunny Day or Zombie Christ day whichever ,

Voni and Wayne
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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[Volksaholic]

@camerahunter: There are threads enough discussing mileage to make your eyes melt, but the short answer that the WBX and the EJ2x won't make much difference. It's more how you drive it than what 4 cylinder horizontally opposed engine is powering it. There are a few accounts to the contrary but I tend to be skeptical. The big difference is that you can get about the same mileage (or a little better) with much more get-up-and-go-power... but of course abusing that will drop your mileage.

Pinealservo is right that the factory service manuals, both for your engine and the Bentley for the van, will make life SO MUCH easier during your conversion. My engine is old enough I was able to find a boot-legged copy of the manual online. I'm a reference material kind of guy and would probably still have another 5 years left to build the harness if I hadn't found the manual. The Subie manuals are expensive, but they're broken down in sections and for the most part you only need the engine and electrical/wiring sections. That said, I ended up referencing the fuel delivery, cooling system, and A/C sections too... but I probably could have gotten by without them. There are pay services you can access for the manuals and maybe download what you need if you can't find another source.

Paul
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1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

[pinealservo]

Sounds like this is going to be a fun project. If you don't have it yet, get the factory service manual for every vehicle you pull parts off of, or at least the major parts, so you know how they were originally supposed to work.

I bought my Vanagon pre-converted with a 2000 EJ25, but I ended up having to go over a lot of the work myself to fix some problems that had either never been addressed at all or which had stopped working correctly at some point. I still need to make a circuit to fool the computer into thinking one of the emissions-related sensors that I don't have is there. There's a small board from SmallCar that's supposed to do it, but it's only got a single point of adjustment for several sensors at once, and I haven't been able to get them all happy at the same time.

Anyway, the FSM was invaluable for tracking down computer/wiring problems and for adding the Subaru air conditioning compressor, which had been left off in the initial conversion. I still want to add cruise control, but it's way down on my list. I'd recommend grabbing the air conditioning compressor and bracketry if you don't have it now, even if your van doesn't currently have an AC system or you don't plan on hooking it up right away. You can successfully retrofit AC, and if you can handle doing an engine conversion yourself, you can probably handle getting AC installed as well.

Good luck to you, and may you be able to get it running on time!

[camerahunter]

What kind of mileage does a 2.5 get?
Pretty ambitious project you have going, I will be following it closely.
No help from me though. I have just stuck with stock.

Thank you,

David
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1984 - Daily driver

[r39o]

That wiring harness stuff REALLY scares me. Let us know how you sort that out. I suspect it will be a challenge to get all those little wires to create enough synergy to make the engine run well.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[wjjr]

Week 1 has been an interesting mix of "wahoo" and "son of a b**ch" mostly due to trying to locate all the bracketry for the ancillaries. Engine we bought did not come w/ bracket 1 neither did any of the parts, apparently these parts are thrown over the proverbial shoulder at the yards. Did have a little bit of luck this week when I found a 2008 in Ocala that hadn't been touched yet but when I got there half of my list was broken due to the severe front end damage and after explaining to the Deliverance cast member the importance of what and where to cut the wiring harness I thought I would at least come out with that but no jackass hacked the shit out of it, next time I assure you I will be over their shoulder the whole time! Did lots of other shopping as well and have several shipments on their way Another downer was when I went to clean up the wbx that's still in the van I noticed where the o2 sensor wiring was melted well into the harness and that one of the nla coolant hoses decided to start leaking, all was fine with it a week ago (well for the most part) Must have seen the Suby replacement and decided to be a dick about it. Any how ging to fix up the wbx a bit to get on cl while still in the van, continue looking for the rest parts I need from donors and patiently wait for the UPS guy. Hopefully things will pick up this week!

Positive attitude engaged,
Wayne
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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[DubNuts]

If your having problems finding the correct wiring harness etc there are a few options..
You can run a aftermarket ECU, you may also have problems getting Drive by wire controller setup propperly. Another problem I've seen is guys trying to get the Newer large Intake Manifold to clear the Hatch cover, but there are ways. Ben seems to have it down.
Other Options would be to pickup an Spider Intake style manifold from an earlier 2.5 Subaru one that still has the Throttle Body to connect your gas pedal cable to, you won't lose any power if any by switching manifolds, and actually gain HP by going after market ECU. Plus it would probably be way cheaper then your budgeted 7k number. If you still have the desire and when time permits you can switch things back to the orginal wiring harnes once you have all the wiring, and parts required.
I'm just Sayin, there are ways....
Good Luck.

[Volksaholic]

[insyncro]

[GrindGarage]

I do have a thread...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=439744&highlight=vanny

Gotta update it though. So far bolting all smallcar stuff up to motor and did t-belt, water pump and pulleys. I got the t-belt kit from rockauto and it is a Gates box kit. Good news is that the pulleys that came with the kit had the same bearings in them as the factory ones pulled from the motor. I also got the water pump from them and was pleased with the quality.

On the flexpalte side of the engine there is some oil cover made of plastic that is suppose to leak and I bought a e-bay kit to reseal it with metal cover. Came complete with hardware from a dealer in colorado shipped fast too.

I have a super hectic schedule and will hopefully get some more done this weekend. Trying to get the motor fully prepped before removing the wbx. Oh and I also sourced out the early air intake pipe for my 2.2. My late motor has a huge box at the throttle body.

I am planning on running the stock air box and filter and will probably run a small snorkel up the drivers side pillar, just waiting to get to that point.

As for the header I thought I got what I paid for. Exhaust are not cheap and the quality was pretty good for the coin spent. One note is I do have single port heads. I will be giving the header oil treatments and do not expect it to remain shiny. I have bought and abused a cheap stainless turbo header for my BMW and it exceeded my expectations. The only manifolds that seem to hold up over 10 years are good quality cast iron.

I am happy so far using smallcar. All of the work I had done was completed faster then expected and is of good qualtiy. They communicated well with me. The one thing that is lacking is itemization of parts in their "kit" I just got multiple boxes of parts and had to figure out where everything goes.

Send benplace.com some money and study his pics. He has great documented of suby swaps and puts it all out there on his own dime.
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com