Am I missing an important part of my Carburetor?

[chrisruff]

I'm back to tinkering with my Bug again. I took the old bracket off of the previous Condenser and it works just fine when mounted with the new Condenser as in your photo. The car runs a little better with the new Points and Condenser too. It only pops a little and was able to reach 50mph although very slowly. The Engine still lacks the quick get up and go that it first had. I'm reading up on how to adjust the timing with the Timing Light. Is there a trick to getting that right? It'll be my first time using one of these...
Thanks!
I'm taking it to a local VW Guru to be schooled in the art of the Timing Gun and the finer points of proper spark advance. I just hope that I'll take good notes.
Got the Dwell and the timing advance set. I have been enjoying driving for over a week now! The car has a lot of pick up and can negotiate its way through traffic with the best of them...
It is running hot though. Temperatures here are frequently in the high 90s- low 100s (F). Are there any tricks to getting the engine to run cooler?

[chrisruff]

Yes, I'm certain that's the way my Distributor should look. So many things that I need to figure out. The Engine thats in my Bug looked like it was put in there by someone that just kind of hashed it together. There are cut and pinched wires, crappy tin that didn't fit and other things to include stuff like the improper Condensor mount. I really appreciate your great advice and detailed photos! I hope that I can pass it on some day.
It'll be some time before I am able to tinker with my Bug because I am currently out of town.

[glutamodo]

That distributor originally came with a separate bracket that holds the condensor down. You probably had the incorrect one on there before.

This is how it's supposed to be:

[chrisruff]

The Condensor and Points were both Bosch parts that I got through a VW Specialist. The Condensor is a match to my old one it is just that they have different mounting hardware it seems. The new one lacks a bracket, cut out that supports the wire plug trapped between the Condensor and the Distributor's housing. I know that probably has a more technical term but I am still learning.
I didn't get to mess with the Timing yet, I'll try it tomorrow morning. I'm doing other stuff on the Car to include reconditioning the Headlamps. Got a source for some Euro looking lenses?

[glutamodo]

To post photos, they have to be uploaded somewhere on the internet first - TheSamba has a photo gallery for this purpose. I only put large photos there, and small photos I have my own spot to keep them.

More on photo posting here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6

It's a good idea to crop and resize your photos to feature just what you want to show.


The dwell - it's just a meter reading the ratio of time the points are open vs closed, and converted to a 0 to 90 degree scale. "Duty Cycle" is a similar term, but that's expessed in percentage - a dwell of 45 out of 90 is really a 50% duty cycle.

Anyway, if you got it at .016" that's close enough, the engine should run OK there. Do that point gap first, then your timing. And with that SVDA start it out statically at 7.5 BTDC and I think you did that.

The correct condensor for the 043 905 205 / 0 231 170 034 distributor is the Bosch 1 237 330 252 - or the 02074 for the "short number" on the box. If you are buying non-Bosch parts from some generic auto parts store, then you should just tell them it's for a 1974 Beetle, that was the only condensor used on 1974 models.

Actually, the last time I got a Bosch 02074, the part in the box didn't have the Bosch logo or the Bosch part number on it - just MADE IN GERMANY was all. Not sure if I like that style, I've seen similar ones where the black seal where the wire goes into it, pops off.

[chrisruff]

My Carburetor looks like one of the ones in a photo that you posted. I really don't have any idea how to post photographs to this forum but if I did, that would be great!
The photo identified some non-German versions, I think, in which the labels had long vanished. It is the one on the left of the photo.

I saw a cute vintage, VW video on Youtube that explained point dwell and timing. I now understand but that doesn't mean that I can accurately set the timing myself. I'll try to set the timing statically once again this afternoon. Another problem that I had was changing out the Condensor. I was certain I got the right Condensor for my Distributor but the mounting hardware on the new unit didn't match the old one. What a pain!

[glutamodo]

Yeah, for years VW's standard setting on the point gap was .016", and dwell 51-55° but then in the 70s VW changed that to .016-.020" and dwell to 44-50° and since the point gap will only decrease over time, I tend to go slightly larger - and whenever I've set the dwell to the 47° range I find that if I check the gap with a feel gauge afterward it's about .017-.018.

But... .016" is fine.

The metal line, it was introduced in mid 1962 to make it so fuel would not condense and potentially run down into the vacuum advance canister. At first they put a full loop in it, (and VW sold some loops to put inline to retrofit 61-62 models that didn't have it) That didn't last very long before they went simply to an up/down setup. "Shepherd's Crook" is a common slang term for the later ones. Makes no difference in how it runs - just a preventitive thing.

Used ones are plentiful at VW swap meets, and there are usually a few in the Classifieds.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search


Earlier in this thread I asked you which carb you had - you only answered was that it wasn't German. What variety of non-German carb did it turn out to be?

-Andy

[chrisruff]

I'm not sure I follow some of what you wrote. I am familiar with how to adjust the timing statically but with the engine running, that is something I am not familiar with. I do have the Vacuum Line, a rubber hose actually, running to the left side of the Carburetor. Most of my VW Books show a metal line with rubber attachments is the right one to get. I haven't found a source for the metal line yet.

Setting the point dwell is something I'll have to familiarize myself with as well. I adjusted the Point Gap to .016".

The Coil, when I tested it looked weak. I probably need to get another.

[glutamodo]

It means that it should function for you. Set the timing statically to 7.5BTDC. If you get a timing light - just a basic cheap one without an advance dial on it will work if you make a 30 degree mark on your pulley - and make sure your centrifugal advance does max out around that 30 spot (do that check without the vac line hooked up. Since the SVDA style vac advance is load-based you really can't check it's performance at the curb, but you can do the "suction" test on the hose and use the timing light to see that the timing mark does move - and heck you don't even need a timing light for that, advancing with some "mouth suction" it will boost the idle speed some)

You do have the vac line going to the fitting pointing to the LEFT side of the carb, correct?

I'd probably make sure your point dwell is OK (VW factory spec in later years was 47 degrees plus or minus 3 - that's about a .017- .018" gap with a feeler gauge) and double check that your plug wire resistances are all OK. I'd say double check the firing order, that can really throw an engine off, and do backfiring too - but you says yours runs OK in lower gears. But you might want to check and see how "hot" of a spark your coil is putting out.

-And7

[chrisruff]

I tried both of the spot checks which show that the Vacuum Can holds a vacuum and the Rotor springs right back into space like it should. What does that mean when setting the right spark advance/timing?
Thanks in advance!

[chrisruff]

Thanks Andy. I'll try both of those advance checks this afternoon.
There is a little up and down play in the Distributor Rotor but it did spring back into place when flexed back and forth in the direction of movement. Is there a particular type of timing light/gun that works best for a VW? I have yet to buy one let alone know how to use it.
If the advance is at fault, and it seems that it is, what is the solution? Does this mean that I'd need a new distributor? Would a properly used timing light fix it up and get the advance properly set? Can someone adjust the advance by sound?

[glutamodo]

Yeah, you said your distributor number was an 034. That's SVDA - it has TWO advances - one is centrifugal and inside the distributor body. The other is the vacuum canister. That's what I meant when you said you should check both for function. If your centrifugal is not working right and that's the only one you are relying on for your advance, the symptoms can be like you are describing.

Centrifugal "quick check" - engine off, key off, remove distributor cap. Grab the rotor, twist it clockwise, you should be able to twist it a short ways and then it'll spring back when you let go. The proper check is to do it with a runnign engine, put on a timing light and watch the timing mark move as you rev the engine up.

Vacuum advance "quick check" - engine off, key off, remove distributor cap - put a hose on the advance canister, put the other end in your mouth. Apply suction. Watch and see if the breaker plate moves around. On an SVDA it takes a bit of suction to get it to move to full advance, and it doesn't move that far either - then plug off the hose and see if the vac canister holds that vacuum and the breaker plate stays in that advanced position for at least a couple few seconds. With a timing light on a running engine you can apply suction to the hose and see if the timing moves.

The SVDA advance only works right if your carb is giving the right vacuum signal - the centrifugal works totally based on engine RPM, and the vacuum works depending on engine load and carburetor throttle position. You can get away without the vacuum - but if your vacuum canister and carb work right, then it'll run better if you have it hooked up.

-Andy

[chrisruff]

The type of Distributor was incorrect. It is actually a single advance and not a double. I found that info on the forum here, could be that I was misteaken...
When I first bought this car, the Single, Vacuum Advance didn't have a line on it. Someone had since told me that it needed a vacuum line but the guy I bought it from said that it didn't. Not sure what to think here... I did test drive the car before I bought it and it drove quite well without that vacuum line. I was in the process of a major tune-up that these other problems started to show up. The spark advance has got to be the problem with this car because it doesn't run that well when shifting into 3rd and 4th Gear. It does idle and run through 1st and 2nd Gears with sufficient pick-up. I just can't seem to top 40pmh on the road and it pops and backfires a little. I am really trying to fix this myself and want to fend off the expense of a mechanic. Pride has a good bit to do with this as well!

[glutamodo]

A lot of times bacfiring on acceleration means the spark is not advancing. I'd check both advances on there!

[chrisruff]

I figured out what type of distributor I have, it is commonly referred to as a SVDA, "205". It is a 0 231 170 034 Bosch. I am in the process of getting new points and condensor. I'll install them as a set this time and hope that my backfiring, sluggish engine will feel better. I did have it out on the road last Friday but it lack power and barely made 40mph with an ammount a backfiring.
The car does idle, the backfiring only happens with acceleration.
Other that that, a bad condensor, I suppose it could be a vacuum leak.

[kjvforme]

-Andy[/quote]
I have question about the accelerator elbow in the above picture, is the elbow located in the correct postion in this picture? The reason I ask is I rebuilt mine and it had a horrible bog. I moved it over right so it would squirt down as the throttle plate cracked open. It improved it but it still has a bog when going into second and the other gears in the beginning right after shift. Other than the bog the carb runs great in idle and Hi-idle.

Rob

[chrisruff]

Yes, the Distributor is manufactured by Bosch and has the number: 0 231 170 034 on it. It also has an arrow pointing to the rear (of the car) with the letters JFU 4.
I have yet to get my new Coil and Distributor Condesor, but the car continues to run rough. It lacks power and backfires. I have had a great deal of trouble timing it and figure that is the major problem. Could it be a vacuum leak?

[glutamodo]

With a tachometer, 800-900RPM on a dual port engine. Did you ever get your distributor part number?

[chrisruff]

Thanks! I'll use that term from now on...
I'm just excited to have this thing alive once more. It sounded good to hear it idle on it's own. The RPMs seemed to be down/low. What should a perfectly running motor idle at? I appreciate your help thus far!

How long have you been into VWs? Personally my dream car is a Gloss Black, 38 KDF Sedan, with no chrome.

[glutamodo]