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purplepeopleeater
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Joined: July 23, 2005
Posts: 3117
Location: E. Washington
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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vanagonjr
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Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3669
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fluid Film from their site
"FLUID FILM products are solvent free and consist of an all natural lanolin base, which contain less than 1% VOC in their bulk form.
Remaining solvent free since the original formulation in 1943, the FLUID FILM product line is made of the highest quality corrosion preventives and lubricants available on the market today."
I know it cost more, but it seems much more friendly than spraying oil on the car.
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John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
Complete SA Grill Set-up for sale!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2748907
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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The Raven
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Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 303
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The Raven
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 303
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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best place for used oil is the recycler......
Regarding Roundup-
Political rant on----
Roundup is bad....but so is the company that produces it...MONSANTO. Any company that hires Blackwater scum to strong arm farmers who accidentally got monsanto patent crops through acts of nature is plain out EVIL. I'll never buy Round up and will speak out against it when possible. Then again any government that allows a living thing to be patented is also wrong and needs major changing. Change that allowance, null and void all associated patents, kill Monsanto's dominance and get safer and more stable foods.
Political Rant off--- |
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jvan_wert
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Joined: October 07, 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Used oil is very acidic, especially in an older vehicle with engine wear, and a not so good crankcase vapor recovery system. Acids accelerate corrosion. Heavy metals, you know chromium, cadmium, lead, zinc, etc. Heavy metals are bad for you, target liver kidneys nervous system and stuff like that. Affects kid more that adults. I'm a parent, enough said. I'm sure our small group of Vanagon owners will not kill the planet, but why be part of the problem, why risk your health for your Vanagon?
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'85 Vanagon GL, 2.0 ZETEC
'78 Baywindow
'67 Beetle
'63 Beetle
"It helps to live in a box to think outside of one." Jim Akiba |
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randywebb
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Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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The heavy metals in used oil are "wear metals" from the moving parts in the engine. I am surprised at your question as you will see them assayed any time you get an oil analysis done. Metals like Pb and Co, for example are used in bearings. I am not talking about rare earths if that's what you mean.
Then there are combustion products - long chain polymers are not merely cleaved into smaller chains, but are reacted with acids formed inside the motor and a variety of novel compounds are formed -- ring compounds, acids and etc.
Maybe you missed in in my posts above, but I advocate people using one of the products specifically made for this use - 3M or Wurth. My point is that someone wanting to save that last penny will be a lot better off using new motor oil than used.
We aren't talking about ATF at all.
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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RadioRental
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Joined: June 30, 2009
Posts: 555
Location: stow, ma
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The Raven wrote: |
| Yeah, used oil is bad, heavy metals and all kinds of other bad crap. I don't use it so I don't care. You can't change people, just educate them. I'll stick to my 1/2 bottle clean ATF mixed with wax and mineral spirits. Very little drip off if any and I hope it lasts longer than straight oil. Corrosion-X or somethin for the interior panels is probably the best bet for treating that stuff. My recipe is best for the salt and corrosion caused by road salt. |
There are no heavy metals in used oil, where would they come from?
You're right that you can't change people and we might as well piss in to the wind as to have a debate on the internet. But please, if you find yourself using terms like 'bad crap' then maybe do a quick search first, here...
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/substances/toxsubstance.asp?toxid=123
Yes, used oil isn't awesome but all it is is the long hydrocarbon chains broken down along with engine metal (not heavy metal) and whatever else found it's way in to the crank case. The idea you can use 'clean' new oil safely is nonsense. Look on your bottle of ATF, it says 'Avoid Skin Contact' for a reason.
You want to get all up in arms about stuff your kids shouldn't roll around in or put in their mouths. That RoundUp you kill weeds with to keep your driveway 'pristine' or that sprayed all over the food here in the US.. thats some "bad crap"
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'87 2.1. 125K 4spd Not rebuilt "Red Dwarf" |
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JeffRobenolt 
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1531
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I guess we need to say tarps or painters plastic on the ground and drip pans under the vehicle to catch the excess.
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The Raven
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Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 303
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, used oil is bad, heavy metals and all kinds of other bad crap. I don't use it so I don't care. You can't change people, just educate them. I'll stick to my 1/2 bottle clean ATF mixed with wax and mineral spirits. Very little drip off if any and I hope it lasts longer than straight oil. Corrosion-X or somethin for the interior panels is probably the best bet for treating that stuff. My recipe is best for the salt and corrosion caused by road salt. |
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randywebb
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Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Toxic waste or hazardous wastes are legal definitions, based on scientific data from toxicology.
USED motor oil is assuredly much, much more toxic than new oil -- it is not even close - I explained why above.
The env'l cost to build a new vehicle has been calculated and is roughly 1/3 of the total emissions expected from that same vehicle over it's entire lifetime.
Even if it were similar, few people live inside of a foundry, or chemical plant, so the comparison to using USED motor oil inside the cabin -- or even in the backyard where your kids play.
Worse, used oil from outside the vehicle will find its way into rivers, streams, lakes, and seas where you and yours play, swim and where your seafood comes from.
Why people who want to camp (presumably in some semblance of a natural area) would do something like this is beyond me.
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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The Raven
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Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 303
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder what is worse.....dripping a little oil....OR expending all the resources to build another vehicle....ANyone have any thoughts on how much fossil fuels are spent building a new vehicle? |
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RadioRental
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Joined: June 30, 2009
Posts: 555
Location: stow, ma
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| randywebb wrote: |
| you should not spray it under the vehicle |
Why?
(rhetorical question; all dino oil is toxic... new or old. Old metals... new chemical additives... it's splitting hairs
If you're concerned it will washed on to the road and in to drains...
You must have one of those vehicles that doesn't leak or burn any oil.
And you drive an 18mpg vehicle for why?
I always go here for a sanity check...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw )
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'87 2.1. 125K 4spd Not rebuilt "Red Dwarf" |
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DAIZEE
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Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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tarp is good but I'd be putting lots of newspapers down to absorb AND wear throw out clothes.
I was somewhat concerned re people using old oil because of the toxicity plus the minute metal particles that tend to accumulate in it regardless of the oil filter. Like for the price of new fresh oil, its not worth to use old.
But I will be having Krown do mine, they do extra because of the vintage. Then I'll park it on the street for a few days as we have a brand new parking lot and I'm sure Landlord would get real ugly if I mark it up. I'm just being considerate. It's a job that I could do if I had the tools for application and the place to do it.
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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randywebb
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Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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used engine oil is toxic waste - you should not spray it under the vehicle or, worse, inside the cabin
used engine oil should be taken to a recycling facility (unless your city has curbside pickup)
I'd buy a purpose designed cavity wax product* but if you really want to mix wax and oil, use NEW engine oil. New oil does not contain toxic metals and combustion products and is safe to use.
*Wurth and 3M both make them
There is also a spray with a plastic in it.
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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kshbaja
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Joined: June 15, 2008
Posts: 476
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Maybe a cheap blue tarp laid out underneath the van?
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1986 Westfalia |
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The Raven
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Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 303
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
Man, where do you guys apply this that you can handle cleanup? What an unholy mess to deal with afterward - would be tough to get off a floor, etc.
DougM |
I applied mine in the woods......no, seriously I did. My workshop is actually in the woods.  |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: |
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The products dont make a mess the person applying them does.
I spend more time taping everything off than actually applying the products. |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10357
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Man, where do you guys apply this that you can handle cleanup? What an unholy mess to deal with afterward - would be tough to get off a floor, etc.
DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| The Raven wrote: |
I would not use bee's wax. Quite expensive, and a waste of good wax IMHO. Gulf wax is cheap and effective, bought at any hardware store or the grocery store. It's used for canning I think.
I applied it with a Zymol protectant bottle. If anyone if familiar with the stuff It's like olive oil. About the same consistency of the stuff I made. In the original post I had heard about it, they had mentioned using a household pressure pesticide sprayer.
I used the gallon can of mineral spirits I got at Home depot. I can't stress enough....spray and wait until it all vaporizes.
Yeah you could speed up the process with heat, but if you have time, just make up a batch mid summer and by fall when you want to use it it's ready to go. THe stuff I made was done mid August, after some tests on other metal, I just applied it yesterday. To make it I actually cut the wax up into long pieces just small enough to fit into the mineral spirit pour spout. As an added benefit to using big pieces, if you don't hear them banging inside...the mixture is done.
Less wax, more oil, more oil, less wax, more oil, more wax. I don't know what works best.........but ANYTHING is better than nothing in the salt belt. Especially if it does not hit the wallet to dearly  |
Expensive bees wax???
My keeper GIVES it too me with a smile 
Well anyway, I use Wurth products on my restorations and have not found any products that compare to the quality.
The products themselves are on par pricewise with what is out there....the awesome tools to apply the products are very pricey.
I made one large order with Wurth and all the tools and cabinets were included at no charge.
Next in line is Eastwood HD AntiRust.
Eastwood has tools to apply and the containers work with the Wurth applicators too.
The Eastwood 60" fan wand is the bomb  |
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JeffRobenolt
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1531
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:09 am Post subject: |
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I buy it by the case for a lot cheaper than this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Precision-Corrosio...mp;vxp=mtr
I think this is one piece to the puzzle.
I like the home brew and paint sprayer for the underneath.
Drain oil for the door seams, inside of frame rails and rockers.
Jeff
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