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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2213
Location: SE PA
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 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:28 am Post subject: |
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The Amazon customer reviews look good. I'm partial to Nigel Calder but this looks to be a good alternative. Thanks for the tip!
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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Belladonna30c
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008
Posts: 206
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| targis58 wrote: |
Maybe a 100w panel is small for me...
If I get a fixed solar panel setup on my roof, I would like to be able to
1. use a 700w electric pot to boil water AND keep the water hot
2. use a laptop and a fold down dvd palyer at the same time
3. but still not under DIRECT sunlight 
4. EDiT: hehe. Forgot about edge star 43qt freezer
Am I asking for too much?
P.S. I would prefer NOT to use the detachable kind panel...too lazy... |
Tarquis et al: recommended reading: Managing 12 Volts: How to Upgrade, Operate, and Troubleshoot 12 Volt Electrical Systems
It covers all of the basics of sorting this stuff out. I came across this on some other Vanagon website, and I highly recommend it.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0964738627/?tag=googhydr-...ncbqorub_e
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1986 Weekender, automatic, 2nd owner
"A picture is worth a 1,000 words..."
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4091
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| madspaniard wrote: |
Thanks Tim,
forgot to mention whether you had a pic of how things look inside the poptop, where is the head of the bolt? inside or outside?
thanks again for inspiring me to get this done |
I was going to post pics of that very thing and I couldn't find them? I knew that I took photos of
the inside as well as the outside of the bracket.
Here's the bracket from the top of the roof. I used a Stainless allen bolt with washer through the
bracket and into the compression nut.
On the inside of the roof where the allen bolt comes through, there is alot of bolt to cut off to bring
flush to the compression nut. What I did was to add a Fender washer, lock washer and another
nut. Then I cut off the remaining bolt threads and filed down any sharp edges. I wanted alittle
added security to the panels' bolts, by double nutting them as well as a BFW that would have a
hard time going through the roof.
Hope this helps!
Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Tim,
forgot to mention whether you had a pic of how things look inside the poptop, where is the head of the bolt? inside or outside?
thanks again for inspiring me to get this done
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4091
Location: Maine
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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2213
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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How's the ProStar working out for you? If my current Blue Sky 6024HL goes down, I'll look elsewhere for a replacement. The MorningStar TriStar looks like a contender (my panel is rated at Voc 68 VDC).
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4091
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| madspaniard wrote: |
Hi Tim
Do you have a picture of your panel attached to the roof showing the mounting points? I've been avoiding this task and really need to tackle installation of my panel on top of van, still not decided, roof top or roof rack? Hum... |
Here's a pic showing that the panel is dead in the center of the pop top, with the mounting brackets
located in the center of two of the roof wells. I used compression nuts with black RTV to seal the
holes. These nuts can be found at Lowes or HD if you need to replace them down the road.
Idealy the panel could be positioned around the campsight, while off the roof but I didn't want to deal
with moving it around. I actually would rather park in the sunshine and let the panel do it's
thing. Besides it doesn't get all that hot here in Maine or New England for very long during the Summer,
so alittle sunshine won't hurt me to camp in it.
Also added a new sticker under my Charge Controller.
Hope this helps getting you motivated to mount that panel!!
Good luck!
Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2213
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know the Thule product line well (for all I know, they may well include some sort of panel mount) but fabricating a mount shouldn't be too hard. I used box section aluminum stock for the 195 W panel resting on our boat's davits (arms used to carry a dinghy - built by Kato Marine of Annapolis, MD). I found a source for plastic ends to seal the open stock and, so far, it's held up well in ocean sailing. Roads, even winter roads, should be much kinder to the aluminum. With a little thought, you should be able to work up something to let the panel tilt while on the rack where the PortaBote or kayak was. Stow the panel under the rack while driving and bring it out when you hit the camp site. And make sure the panel's locked down tight whether on a windy day or when traveling.
I have no idea whether or not Kato works in the RV world, and they work mainly in stainless steel, but take a look at http://www.katomarine.com/ for some ideas.
DISCLAIMER: I have no connection with Kato Marine save as a customer.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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squeegee_boy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 786
Location: Langley, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Tim!
Robyn
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1984 FrankenSyncro Westy. EJ25 RMW kit |
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targis58
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2006
Posts: 539
Location: sunnyvale,ca
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| RBEmerson wrote: |
| A panel under a roof rack? Bad idea. The whole idea is to get sunlight on the panel. Any shadows mean reduced output. If you're talking about the typical bike rack setup of cross bars from left to right and two strips for the wheels running front to back, the chance of the panel getting full illumination is not good. If you're not getting full illumination, you're not getting what you paid for. |
Oh, no...
just two bars above the panel. I sometimes carry a porta-bote on the roof rack and maybe a kayak later in the future. Since you don't need the panel working when moving , that's why I thought of mounting it under the bars.
Any bracket suggestion for that?
Thanks
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90 westy 2wd w/ TBD |
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Tim
Do you have a picture of your panel attached to the roof showing the mounting points? I've been avoiding this task and really need to tackle installation of my panel on top of van, still not decided, roof top or roof rack? Hum...
_________________
1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4091
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| squeegee_boy wrote: |
| jsmitch11 wrote: |
| targis58 wrote: |
Where do you find proper brackets to mount this on Thule bar?
I am thinking of mounting a panel under the bars, but not on the roof, so I still have room to carry something if need to... Bad idea? |
My friend did this on his westy(put a kyocera 135 under the thule bars) and it works great. The panel does fine and he can still use the bars. |
Good to know. I'm planning on doing the same thing with whatever panel I end up with.
Robyn |
Hey Robyn................Here's a link to the company that I got my mounts from. Though my panel
isn't attached to any roof rack, I'm sure if you gave them a call they could give you some
direction.
http://www.eco-distributing.com/Solar-Mounts_c_45.html
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2213
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:45 am Post subject: |
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A panel under a roof rack? Bad idea. The whole idea is to get sunlight on the panel. Any shadows mean reduced output. If you're talking about the typical bike rack setup of cross bars from left to right and two strips for the wheels running front to back, the chance of the panel getting full illumination is not good. If you're not getting full illumination, you're not getting what you paid for.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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squeegee_boy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 786
Location: Langley, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| jsmitch11 wrote: |
| targis58 wrote: |
Where do you find proper brackets to mount this on Thule bar?
I am thinking of mounting a panel under the bars, but not on the roof, so I still have room to carry something if need to... Bad idea? |
My friend did this on his westy(put a kyocera 135 under the thule bars) and it works great. The panel does fine and he can still use the bars. |
Good to know. I'm planning on doing the same thing with whatever panel I end up with.
Robyn
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1984 FrankenSyncro Westy. EJ25 RMW kit |
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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2213
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| jsmitch11 wrote: |
[...]
This is not what I have experienced. Even on mild Seattle summer days my friends Kyocera 135 runs his truckfridge, lights and music the whole time we are camping and doesn't even draw down the aux battery during the day. At night it will dip into them a little but they are fully charged within the first couple of hours of sunlight During the winter it is a different story but on a sunny day around here he will be pulling in over 7 amps in the sun. The kyocera is a polycrystalline(sp?) also which is not as good as a mono. |
Kyocera makes good panels. Being polycrystilline, they're not quite as efficient as monocrystalline panels (but they're less expensive). Kyocera makes up for the slightly lower efficiency with a larger panel. Sitting on a roof, the difference in size isn't going to hurt.
I suspect Truckfridge uses a Danfoss compressor (there are a bunch of reefer makers that use them). With a smart thermostat controlling the compressor, their current draw, and efficiency, is quite impressive. I suspect, too, that there's better insulation around the box; less heat loss means fewer compressor cycles. With a little luck, it's possible your friend's seeing something like 30 AH/day. That's pretty good.
For those using the Dometic reefer in 12VDC mode, the draw is something like 7A (based on a rated 85 W at 12.5 VDC for the heater) or a whacking 168 AH/day.
In short, your friend did the right thing by reducing how much power the panel needs to supply to keep the battery up. One thing that would really help, particularly in the winter, when the sun's lower in the sky, is to tilt the panel. Or dismount it and use a ground mount to allow tracking in altitude (tilt) and azimuth (rotation) to keep the panel illumination up. Just keep the connecting wiring heavy and short as practical to limit voltage drop in the leads to the controller.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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J Charlton 
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2007
Posts: 1546
Location: The True North Strong and Free
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: solar power |
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I'll freely admit that I'm not really sure how a charge controller works. However, the math of the output from the solar panel is pretty simple. If a panel produces 100w of power at 18v, its putting out a current of 5.6 amps. What I don't know, and I wish someone would enlighten me, is if the charge controller, in dropping the output from 18v to (eg) 12v simply chops off part of the output or if it is reformatted to have the total 100w output to be 12 v and about 8.3 amps.
If the total output remains the same, then at 12v and 8.3 amps, you have 8.3 amps "feeding" your electrical system when under full sun, if your appliances i.e. fridge + lights + sound system + whatever has a total draw of more than 8.3 amps, the extra is coming from the battery, if the total draw is less then the 8.3 amps, the extra will be used by the charge controller to replenish the battery until it reaches fully charged state. The duty cycle of the fridge has to be taken into consideration as well - if the truckfridge has a 40% duty cycle (eg) when the fridge compressor is not running, there would be more current available to charge the batteries.
I think that you have to look at the amp hours angle of the topic. If the fridge pulls 6 amps at at 40% duty cycle then in 1 hour it will use 2.4 amp hours per hour. If the solar panel is producing 8.3amps for 1 hour that's 8.3 amp hours - subtract 2.4 from 8.3 and that leaves 5.9 amp hours of production to replenish the battery or for other uses.
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jsmitch11
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2011
Posts: 337
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| RBEmerson wrote: |
I stand by my comments. I get that uses in a land vehicle are different than land "off the grid" uses or marine uses. NTL, the basics still obtain. A 100w panel sitting on top of a Westy simply cannot do much more than slow down the discharge rate for a battery that fits under the driver's seat in a Westy. This has nothing to do with the panel in question being Costco special (my personal opinion is there are far more cost effective sources). It goes back to the rules of electricity and the physics of photocells. Argue with them if you must (don't hold your breath waiting for a change, though). |
This is not what I have experienced. Even on mild Seattle summer days my friends Kyocera 135 runs his truckfridge, lights and music the whole time we are camping and doesn't even draw down the aux battery during the day. At night it will dip into them a little but they are fully charged within the first couple of hours of sunlight During the winter it is a different story but on a sunny day around here he will be pulling in over 7 amps in the sun. The kyocera is a polycrystalline(sp?) also which is not as good as a mono. |
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jsmitch11
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2011
Posts: 337
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| targis58 wrote: |
Where do you find proper brackets to mount this on Thule bar?
I am thinking of mounting a panel under the bars, but not on the roof, so I still have room to carry something if need to... Bad idea? |
My friend did this on his westy(put a kyocera 135 under the thule bars) and it works great. The panel does fine and he can still use the bars. |
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DAIZEE
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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I may be wrong but I think my driver's side battery compartment is the same as the engine battery on passengers side.
Rubber Chicken: I don't really know anything about this but would a motor cycle solar keep your battery charged up? or my house battery can be charged while I'm driving with the flick of a switch. I just have to remember to flick that switch off when parked.
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RBEmerson
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011
Posts: 2213
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| rubbachicken wrote: |
[...]
also think about our alternator, what's that 90 amp if you are lucky
i relies that the amps from the alternator will be more than from the solar cell
shame we can't afford one  , our aux battery goes flat daily
from just the cooler box |
Well, yes and no. Batteries can only accept a certain amount of current. Anything more than that simply turns into heat (bad for batteries). Bumping up the output from the alternator, if a number of other loads are present (fans, lights, etc.), too, might help. But if you're using one of the small batteries that fits under the driver seat, chances are the alternator isn't the problem. Bumping up the battery capacity can help, but that will probably mean bumping up the charging capability (alternator), too, to say nothing of figuring out where to locate the battery, wiring it up, etc. I'd first look into limiting the other loads (switch to LED's, for example) to leave room for the reefer's load.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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