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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I started my install yesterday of the zero lift springs. I got the rears in and will tackle the fronts later this week. The rear was pretty easy because I had the hub off which allowed the axel to slide out and the arm could be lowered as much as needed. Also put on longer studs and spacers for my upcoming wheel and tire change. I will add more pictures and ride height info when I get the front springs installed.
Here's a comparison of the old and new spring. They are pretty much the same length.
Here's the spring installed on the van.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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Solrider
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2011
Posts: 199
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Finally got my my suspension installed! Before and after:
_________________
Heidi - KF7CKI
85 Vanagon GL 1.6NA - Otto Von Wunderwagen
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Gone but not forgotten:
71 Super Beetle - Gretel
92 Jetta GL - Jerry
97 Passat TDI - Penny |
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nacradriver
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Joined: January 15, 2009
Posts: 761
Location: Ventura, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| unibagel wrote: |
^If that's a weekender can you post up the measurements from center of wheel to finder lip?
I have an 85 Weekender and want to make sure I can still fit in the garage when I replace my springs...  |
No, it is a full camper... but it is empty right now..
That said I am getting 18" in the front and 17 5/8 in the rear....
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Güdrun -1989 Westfalia - 2013 - 2018
Petra - 1985 Vanagon - 1985 to 1991
Zisa - 1974 VW Van "Bus" - 1974 to 1985 |
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unibagel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2004
Posts: 557
Location: Bflo, NY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: |
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^If that's a weekender can you post up the measurements from center of wheel to finder lip?
I have an 85 Weekender and want to make sure I can still fit in the garage when I replace my springs... |
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nacradriver
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Joined: January 15, 2009
Posts: 761
Location: Ventura, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Just done about a month ago, this is the GW Zero lift spings with the Bilstien shocks and 16" wheels
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Güdrun -1989 Westfalia - 2013 - 2018
Petra - 1985 Vanagon - 1985 to 1991
Zisa - 1974 VW Van "Bus" - 1974 to 1985 |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| j_dirge wrote: |
Nice write up..
I would only add that on Step 7 - Remove 27MM nut on front of alignment bar (radius control arm - RCA).. that you also back the inside nut WAY down toward the swing arm.. by an inch or more... |
I dont' get why you would need to do that, when you take the front nut off, the shaft pulls back (not forward) so the location of the rear nut doesn't enter into it as it is already away from the frame?
Dave |
The restrictive binding occurs, in part, because the RCA rod (where it goes thru the bulk head) binds as it angles relative to the bulkhead... the inside bushing stays pressed against the bulkhead hole at the bottom.. and the spacer around the rod restricts a little too.
I did not quite get it either.. until I tried it.. but it allows the swing arm to extend down by a lot more... and do so more freely without binding at the swing arm (LCA) inner hinge point bolt/bushing.
Am not 100% sure where I picked that tip up.. maybe here.. maybe the Bentley?
OP can try without first.. but I've done this several times now and no doubt in my mind I get the added droop to slide the spring in without having to force it or "pop" it in... and certainly without any need for a spring compressor.
A big ratchet style open end wrench would be very handy for this task. As backing that nut off is a bit tedious.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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davevickery
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Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
Nice write up..
I would only add that on Step 7 - Remove 27MM nut on front of alignment bar (radius control arm - RCA).. that you also back the inside nut WAY down toward the swing arm.. by an inch or more... |
I dont' get why you would need to do that, when you take the front nut off, the shaft pulls back (not forward) so the location of the rear nut doesn't enter into it as it is already away from the frame?
Dave |
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j_dirge
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Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| davevickery wrote: |
1. Soak all the nuts with PB Blaster ahead of time.
2. Measure your ride height on flat ground before you start.
3. Chock the other side’s wheel and make sure e-brake is on.
4. Jack up van at jack point and remove wheel
5. Position 2nd jack under lower arm. Leave it down for now though.
6. Remove shock bolts(top nut then bottom bolt). Remove brake hose at the caliper (11 & 14MM) and wrap it tight with duct tape to stop it from draining all your brake fluid.
7. Remove 27MM nut on front of alignment bar
8. Remove 17MM lower stabilizer nut
9. Use 2nd jack to raise/lower the suspension as needed.
10. Remove 2 large Allen heads to upper ball joint The whole knuckle should drop down.
11. Pry out spring. It is so close to being free, I just used a large screw driver as a pry bar and a rubber mallet. It comes out to the rear.
12. Use duct tape to hold rubber spring boot on top of spring. Get boot good and tight onto spring. Spring is maybe a ¼” larger diameter and slightly thicker, so boot won’t stay on by itself.
13. Put in spring, bottom first (white markings down), then jam in top. I layed down and used my foot to get it in. It doesn’t want to go in all the way, maybe ½” or so further out than the original. Don’t worry about it, it will straighten itself as the spring compresses and later when you have been driving. One rubber boot tore a little bit as it didn’t quite clear the upper control arm, no biggy.
14. Jack up 2nd jack to compress spring. Make sure stabilizer bar is back in its hole.
15. Reconnect ball joint
16. Reconnect alignment arm
17. Reconnect brake hose. If it is dripping pretty good when you screw it back on, you might not have to bleed brakes later.
18. Install shock.
19. Check all the nuts again to make sure they are all tight.
20. Add more brake fluid before doing other side. That may save you from having to bleed brakes, but no biggy either way.
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Nice write up..
I would only add that on Step 7 - Remove 27MM nut on front of alignment bar (radius control arm - RCA).. that you also back the inside nut WAY down toward the swing arm.. by an inch or more..
BEFORE you do this.. count the number of threads showing.. each side of the nuts (front and back of the mounting plate) on the RCA.. Jot that number down for each side... and store in a safe place.
Backing that nut down allows the swing arm to droop more and makes the use of a spring compressor unnecessary.. (they are a hassle on a 2WD, more trouble than help.. except for longer than stock springs like the GW 2" lift springs.)
Once you have that all loosened up, you can put a foot on the swing arm and push down.. the original spring pops right out.. but wear gloves, because invariably your hand finds its way between two objects and can get mashed.
The new spring goes in same way.. but make sure you get it seated properly.. the pig tail needs to sit right up against the cast stop on the swing arm.. and the rubber pad on top needs to be rotated just right so that the indentation is lined up with pigtail on top.. If either is off, it will create uneven ride heights and squeak like bejeebus... If the rubber pad on top is misaligned it will destroy itself in short order.
But the spring and pad are easy to rotate and wiggle into place.. with everything loosened. Take your time on this, step.
Once its all back together per Dave's write-up.. readjust that inside nut to where it was before.. refer to your notes on number of threads.
That will be a good baseline for temporary setting until you can get the van properly aligned.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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rubbachicken
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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yes a spring compressor makes the job easier, i had to rent one, it didn't help all that much 
| davevickery wrote: |
Here is what is involved doing the fronts. Pretty simple assuming the nuts come loose but it just takes time. This writeup was for putting in Moog springs which are shorter than stock. The GW front progressive zero lift are taller and that is why people say it is a PITA. So everything here is true, except that you apparently do need to use a spring compressor.
I would personally just let the shop do the fronts. After you have one side all apart and can't get the spring in, what do you do? Course, if you can find the right spring compressor and like to do stuff on your own...
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lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni' |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Here is what is involved doing the fronts. Pretty simple assuming the nuts come loose but it just takes time. This writeup was for putting in Moog springs which are shorter than stock. The GW front progressive zero lift are taller and that is why people say it is a PITA. So everything here is true, except that you apparently do need to use a spring compressor.
I would personally just let the shop do the fronts. After you have one side all apart and can't get the spring in, what do you do? Course, if you can find the right spring compressor and like to do stuff on your own...
| davevickery wrote: |
Below was my original post about installing Moog 5660s in the front. I just put in Moog 5658 springs in my new van and wanted to mention a couple things.
It was not necessary to remove the brake lines as I originally said. If the wheel is turned inwards, there is enough room for the knuckle to hang or be supported on a block w/o getting in the way. That saves a lot of time. I also did not need to undo the tie rod end this time. So everything went a lot quicker.
I also just figured out there is a bushing in the lower control arm where the bolt goes through to secure the lower shock mount. If you tap that out a bit, it is much easier to fit the shock back in. I didn't see that the first time.
Also worth noting, the 5658s put the front just under 17", like 16 7/8RF and 16 3/4 LF (on a Westy). I'll need to see if it settles, but that is under a 1/2" less than the 5660s. And the 5658 are a perfect fit. The spring pad fits on top just like the original springs. They are the same height as the 5660s just not as stiff.
| davevickery wrote: |
Installing Moog 5660 front springs. This was easy enough that I wanted to post details as it is definitely DIY.
These are firmer springs that lift the van about 1.5 inches on a full westy. But the springs are actually shorter than stock so they go in pretty easy. If you unfasten everything below you don’t need a spring compressor.
1. Soak all the nuts with PB Blaster ahead of time.
2. Measure your ride height on flat ground before you start.
3. Chock the other side’s wheel and make sure e-brake is on.
4. Jack up van at jack point and remove wheel
5. Position 2nd jack under lower arm. Leave it down for now though.
6. Remove shock bolts(top nut then bottom bolt). Remove brake hose at the caliper (11 & 14MM) and wrap it tight with duct tape to stop it from draining all your brake fluid.
7. Remove 27MM nut on front of alignment bar
8. Remove 17MM lower stabilizer nut
9. Use 2nd jack to raise/lower the suspension as needed.
10. Remove 2 large Allen heads to upper ball joint The whole knuckle should drop down.
11. Pry out spring. It is so close to being free, I just used a large screw driver as a pry bar and a rubber mallet. It comes out to the rear.
12. Use duct tape to hold rubber spring boot on top of spring. Get boot good and tight onto spring. Spring is maybe a ¼” larger diameter and slightly thicker, so boot won’t stay on by itself.
13. Put in spring, bottom first (white markings down), then jam in top. I layed down and used my foot to get it in. It doesn’t want to go in all the way, maybe ½” or so further out than the original. Don’t worry about it, it will straighten itself as the spring compresses and later when you have been driving. One rubber boot tore a little bit as it didn’t quite clear the upper control arm, no biggy.
14. Jack up 2nd jack to compress spring. Make sure stabilizer bar is back in its hole.
15. Reconnect ball joint
16. Reconnect alignment arm
17. Reconnect brake hose. If it is dripping pretty good when you screw it back on, you might not have to bleed brakes later.
18. Install shock.
19. Check all the nuts again to make sure they are all tight.
20. Add more brake fluid before doing other side. That may save you from having to bleed brakes, but no biggy either way.
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Solrider
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2011
Posts: 199
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well at the very least this weekend I'll take a shot at it and get everything installed but the front springs. I have to take the van back to the mechanic next week anyway for a couple other things so I'll just have him install them then if this ends up being a pain.
_________________
Heidi - KF7CKI
85 Vanagon GL 1.6NA - Otto Von Wunderwagen
--------------------------
Gone but not forgotten:
71 Super Beetle - Gretel
92 Jetta GL - Jerry
97 Passat TDI - Penny |
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rubbachicken
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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and good leverage, i spent too long fighting with them to get them on, i believe they are well worth changing to, though, the van's owner was more than happy with the end result
| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| davevickery wrote: |
| You need 2 jacks; one to hold up van, one to jack up the trailing arm to put the shock back on. |
For safety's sake, use jack stands to support the van and a jack for lifting the trailing arm.
Perhaps my '90 2WD is an anomaly, but it took some serious spring compression (using the rod/hook versions; one outside, one inside) on those Zero-Lifts to get them to fit into the front mounts, even with everything disconnected. |
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lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni' |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8438
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| You need 2 jacks; one to hold up van, one to jack up the trailing arm to put the shock back on. |
For safety's sake, use jack stands to support the van and a jack for lifting the trailing arm.
Perhaps my '90 2WD is an anomaly, but it took some serious spring compression (using the rod/hook versions; one outside, one inside) on those Zero-Lifts to get them to fit into the front mounts, even with everything disconnected.
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~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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davevickery
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Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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You can do the rears by taking off the tire and undoing one bolt (lower shock). You need 2 jacks; one to hold up van, one to jack up the trailing arm to put the shock back on. I don't see how having it up in the air is a help there. Not much harder than changing a tire, there is no reason to get under the van.
For the front, you could remove the shocks yourself and take it to a shop to put the front springs in. They would have the tools shouldn't take too long if you have the front shocks out and have already done the rears. |
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floggingmolly
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Joined: April 06, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| The clamshell kind, not the internal threaded rod with flimsy hooks...it won't fit anyway. |
Hmmm, well the threaded rod ones are the ones I used, seemed pretty strong, but I'm certainly no expert. They did fit, for sure since I used them, but I will admit that it took a few tries to get them properly located on the spring so they didn't hit a conflict on install.
| Solrider wrote: |
| The good news is I have access to a shop lift, so hopefully that should help. |
A shop lift will definitely help in terms of leverage and not being bent over for hours getting this done. You can do it.
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'85 Wolfsburg Weekender |
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Solrider
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Joined: April 27, 2011
Posts: 199
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys for the info…seems pretty doable. I know when I did the install on my 4Runner it was pretty easy, but that had front coil overs and no compressor was needed. The good news is I have access to a shop lift, so hopefully that should help.
_________________
Heidi - KF7CKI
85 Vanagon GL 1.6NA - Otto Von Wunderwagen
--------------------------
Gone but not forgotten:
71 Super Beetle - Gretel
92 Jetta GL - Jerry
97 Passat TDI - Penny |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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The clamshell kind, not the internal threaded rod with flimsy hooks...it won't fit anyway.
I have two units...SIR tools, about $650 each.
What would people consider a good rental rate?
The shipping of the tool in its case will be at least $40 each way.
I will make.one available for.rental if it makes sense. |
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floggingmolly
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Joined: April 06, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| The safest way to install the fronts is with a high quality spring compressor. |
Would you consider the loaner from PepBoys high quality? Seemed pretty safe to me.
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| The safest way to install the fronts is with a high quality spring compressor. |
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floggingmolly
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Joined: April 06, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Solrider wrote: |
I've had these springs sitting in a box for 3 weeks now, thanks to an incompetent mechanic I have not been able to get them installed. I've just had to have my entire brake system redone which has blown my budget for pretty much anything else! So I'm looking at just taking on this project myself….I have installed springs/shocks in another vehicle but that didn't really require any special tools.
Am I going to need a spring compressor for these? Any other install tips? |
For the zero lift springs the removal and install is pretty easy. The old ones should drop out with the van supported and the shocks/struts removed (and the tires of course). The swingarm just swings down (you may need to give it some help by pushing down). To reinstall the new ones, I got loaner spring compressors from PepBoys and compressed the new ones to make the install a bit easier (only for the front though, the rears did not seem to require it). Once you have installed the new springs on each swingarm, you'll need a jack to lift the swingarm back in to place to reinstall the shocks/struts.
This is definitely something you can do on a weekend morning. Took me a couple of hours.
EDIT:
Check out these posts for a little more detail, and more opinions...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6681368
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=897589
http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/vanagon-syn...ompressor/
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'85 Wolfsburg Weekender
Last edited by floggingmolly on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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