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mr matt
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 1018
Location: southeast Pa
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 Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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JB weld is good enough.
_________________
1955 3-fold semaphore Oval beetle
1971 Convertible beetle
1977 Westfalia, FI, Berlin interior |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 36319
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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Years ago I used to roll brass fuel fittings between two coarse files to dimple them, before re-inserting them. I used a little JB Weld, but the proper Loctite would be even better now.
My rebuilt carb (VolkzBitz) had a threaded and barbed fitting into the body; I may ask my fuel pump rebuilder (Sparxwerks?) to do the same when that time comes. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13701
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| viiking wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| .... And I worked four decades for a sister company of Loctite, and they - and Permatex - make good quality products. |
As did I Cusser, but not as long as you.
I agree wholeheartedly. Loctite puts a huge amount of time into research and by searching their database you will find a product that will "glue" that connection into place permanently. |
At the end of the day, if owners want to safety wire a fuel fitting on their carb or fuel pump, they should do that. If they want to thread in fuel fittings, by all means do that too.
I consulted with Loctite when selecting their product I use to secure those inlet and outlet tubes in both fuel pumps, carbs and other parts.
I then did a bunch of tests after reinstalling the tube in castings to see what it would take to remove the tube from the casting. They simply won't come out unless you get an acetylene torch and heat the casting up to 500° to melt the Loctite. Fuel exposure is not a factor as the connection where the tube is pressed in see's no fuel.
My VW's are running rebuilt carbs and fuel pumps with their tubes pressed in and secured with Loctite. I have zero worries about those connections after my tests before using it. Other qualified rebuilders also use loctite products to secure fittings, tubes and other nuts/bolts.
I tell all my customers that they need to check their carb brass fuel inlet tube for tightness as well. If my friend [email protected] has rebuilt the carb, no need to worry about that inlet tube. He secures them too. Those tubes are often not tight in the casting of unrebuilt carbs. You must Loctite them in.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3435
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| .... And I worked four decades for a sister company of Loctite, and they - and Permatex - make good quality products. |
As did I Cusser, but not as long as you.
I agree wholeheartedly. Loctite puts a huge amount of time into research and by searching their database you will find a product that will "glue" that connection into place permanently.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7569
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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That's a connection I would trust!
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
I will always advocate for a threaded and barbed connection if at all possible. A 1/16" NPT barbed fitting is a good fit for most carburetors and fuel pumps that have the press-in style tubing inlet/outlet.
My charts show using an 'A' letter drill for the 1/16" NPT cut tap if taper reamed, or a 'C' drill if not reamed.
 'A' drill size is .2340, which is only .0004" smaller than a standard 15/64" drill. I would not hesitate to use the 15/64" drill here.
The 'C' drill is .2420", with the closest fractional drill being 1/4" at .250", and I would not suggest using it. .080" is quite a lot of thread engagement to lose in soft aluminum.
I'm using 1/16" NPT to 4AN fitings on my parts, but I used a 1/16" NPT to 1/4" barb fitting on my bus carburetor with regular fuel hose and it worked very well.
https://www.amazon.com/MettleAir-Single-Tubing-Fitting-Connector/dp/B007QTZ3NM?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/Hose-Barb-Fitting-Brass-Units/dp/B07DJ5RB6X |
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33445
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| To be honest - it doesn't take much to safety wire that stuff in. And I worked four decades for a sister company of Loctite, and they - and Permatex - make good quality products. |
Safety wire in this photo
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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67conv
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2005
Posts: 464
Location: Simi Valley, California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Arggg, that sucks!
In addition to it popping out, I noticed that aftermarket tube doesn't go into the pump very far.
The original Solex ones have a longer tube that sticks in. |
And ironically - I have a rebuilt orig. Pierburg pump (and correct 205K dist., 30 PICT1) for this '67 tucked away for the moment awaiting installation on the early '67 H0 20xxxx long block going back in soon. This was my "driver" engine, and that damn fuel pump was a recent "lifetime guarantee" Auto Zone replacement unit, because their gold top version failed at the drive rod!
iowegian - I've been already working on that Ruby Red re-do this summer, actually! Painted the orig. factory fenders single stage Acrylic Urethane L456. Will do body next, putting that nos beading to work soon! 
KTPhil - Thanks for your compliment! Yes, I had just dropped off my gf at a friend's house. Very lucky.
Busstom - I had the same thought on that black plate too! lol The stack of stickers got a little singed around the edges, but it survived pretty well, considering!
Lesson Learned!
_________________
1967 VW Convertible, owned 35 years.
1957 DKW 3=6, owned 21 years.
PREVIOUS: 1972 "Baja Champion SE" Spec. Edition Beetle bought NEW @ Pierce VW in Denver; 1979 Super Beetle Convertible bought NEW @ Downtown LA VW; 1967 type 1 savanna beige; 1967 Porsche 2.0 911S; 1973 Porsche 2.4 911T; 1963 356 T6 B Cabriolet; 1964 356 SC sunroof coupe; 1972 Type-3 Squareback; 1968 + 1969 Type-3 Fastbacks; 1987 Vanagon GL Weekender |
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wdfifteen
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2019
Posts: 706
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: Re: weber? |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
one problem with a threaded fix is the that the tapered thread can exert tremendous force on the old, weaken, already stretched aluminum carb casting, and that could allow the casting to split. |
I think Solex carburetor bodies are cast from a zinc alloy, not aluminum. I could be wrong. |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 3360
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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I will always advocate for a threaded and barbed connection if at all possible. A 1/16" NPT barbed fitting is a good fit for most carburetors and fuel pumps that have the press-in style tubing inlet/outlet.
My charts show using an 'A' letter drill for the 1/16" NPT cut tap if taper reamed, or a 'C' drill if not reamed.
'A' drill size is .2340, which is only .0004" smaller than a standard 15/64" drill. I would not hesitate to use the 15/64" drill here.
The 'C' drill is .2420", with the closest fractional drill being 1/4" at .250", and I would not suggest using it. .080" is quite a lot of thread engagement to lose in soft aluminum.
I'm using 1/16" NPT to 4AN fitings on my parts, but I used a 1/16" NPT to 1/4" barb fitting on my bus carburetor with regular fuel hose and it worked very well.
https://www.amazon.com/MettleAir-Single-Tubing-Fitting-Connector/dp/B007QTZ3NM?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/Hose-Barb-Fitting-Brass-Units/dp/B07DJ5RB6X
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33445
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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To be honest - it doesn't take much to safety wire that stuff in. And I worked four decades for a sister company of Loctite, and they - and Permatex - make good quality products.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4585
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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Thank gawd the black plate survived!
_________________
My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)
| cory464 wrote: |
| if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71893
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| 67conv wrote: |
Just a graphic reminder of what can, and in my case DID happen last Friday! The bottom photo clearly shows the outlet pipe had popped out of the fuel pump housing, allowing fuel to spew out and ignite!
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Arggg, that sucks!
In addition to it popping out, I noticed that aftermarket tube doesn't go into the pump very far.
The original Solex ones have a longer tube that sticks in.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9983
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| John, that sure sucks. But on the bright side, perhaps this will help in your decision to go back to the original Ruby Red color. (I know you need an excuse to use your N.O.S. fender beading) |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 36319
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| 67conv wrote: |
| I was extremely fortunate that someone who was witnessing the fire ran over with a fire extinguisher, as I foolishly didn't have one on board! Be forewarned! I never thought it would happen to me in 50 years of acvw ownership! |
Glad no one was hurt, and that your car wasn't damaged too severely (nice car!) |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4585
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| 67conv wrote: |
| Just a graphic reminder of what can, and in my case DID happen last Friday! The bottom photo clearly shows the outlet pipe had popped out of the fuel pump housing, allowing fuel to spew out and ignite! |
Holy Smokes! Your beautiful convertible! I never thought I'd see that either.
You are indeed fortunate 
_________________
My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)
| cory464 wrote: |
| if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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67conv
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2005
Posts: 464
Location: Simi Valley, California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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This was an aftermarket pump, from Autozone. Bought in a pinch a couple years ago. Not sure about what sort of factory QC methods apply to these Chinese things. LESS than 600 miles usage, I can't imagine why it would come loose like that!
_________________
1967 VW Convertible, owned 35 years.
1957 DKW 3=6, owned 21 years.
PREVIOUS: 1972 "Baja Champion SE" Spec. Edition Beetle bought NEW @ Pierce VW in Denver; 1979 Super Beetle Convertible bought NEW @ Downtown LA VW; 1967 type 1 savanna beige; 1967 Porsche 2.0 911S; 1973 Porsche 2.4 911T; 1963 356 T6 B Cabriolet; 1964 356 SC sunroof coupe; 1972 Type-3 Squareback; 1968 + 1969 Type-3 Fastbacks; 1987 Vanagon GL Weekender |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13701
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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That sucks!
That's an Airtek brand economy fuel pump sold at most FLAPS. They are notorious for those tubes coming out. They are also known to put out more than 5psi for fuel pressure too. A customer said he got 7 psi out of his before pulling it off and replacing it with a rebuilt German Pierburg pump.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7569
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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The factory press fit the tubes into the pump. There's a reason they become loose.
I'd be more concerned with rebuilders who shelter themselves behind an LLC. The end customer has little recourse if the pump leaks, causes a fire, and burns the whole car.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)
Last edited by heimlich on Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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67conv
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2005
Posts: 464
Location: Simi Valley, California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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Just a graphic reminder of what can, and in my case DID happen last Friday! The bottom photo clearly shows the outlet pipe had popped out of the fuel pump housing, allowing fuel to spew out and ignite!
I was extremely fortunate that someone who was witnessing the fire ran over with a fire extinguisher, as I foolishly didn't have one on board! Be forewarned! I never thought it would happen to me in 50 years of acvw ownership!
_________________
1967 VW Convertible, owned 35 years.
1957 DKW 3=6, owned 21 years.
PREVIOUS: 1972 "Baja Champion SE" Spec. Edition Beetle bought NEW @ Pierce VW in Denver; 1979 Super Beetle Convertible bought NEW @ Downtown LA VW; 1967 type 1 savanna beige; 1967 Porsche 2.0 911S; 1973 Porsche 2.4 911T; 1963 356 T6 B Cabriolet; 1964 356 SC sunroof coupe; 1972 Type-3 Squareback; 1968 + 1969 Type-3 Fastbacks; 1987 Vanagon GL Weekender |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13701
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| wdfifteen wrote: |
| Bill, I got a fuel pump from you. Do you routinely pull out the tube and Loc-Tite it back in? If not, I assume I should safety wire the fuel pump outlet. |
Yes, every fuel pump I rebuild has the brass tubes removed and then Loctited back in so they don't come out again. 
It's still a good practice for owners to slice the rubber fuel hoses lengthwise down the tube to remove or peal off the braided fuel lines from the carb tubes and pumps. Most carb inlet tubes are not very tight in their bores. Too many people yank or pull the rubber hoses off the tubes which can then loosen or pull the tubes out partially. Bad things happen then.
If the tube/s have been loctited in with the retaining compound, there's zero need to lockwire them as well. The tubes won't come out again unless you heat up the tube/bore to like 500° to melt the loctite. Even then they are a bear to remove. 
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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