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1975 Kombi
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:06 am Post subject: |
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3 of my original ball joints were peened in and 1 wasn't. The 3 that were peened were definitely harder to press out. So it must be a precautionary thing for added hold.
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Brett
“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.
75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
2011 Touareg TDI
2001 NB TDI
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
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Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v |
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Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5376
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I can't see why it would be necessary to peen the ball joint into the torsion arm. There's no freaking way the ball joint is coming out on it's own.
I just replaced the ball joints in my '79 with Nakata ball joints. The old ones were OCAP ball joints - the uppers only lasted two years.
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Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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1975 Kombi
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:00 pm Post subject: Ball joint peening result |
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Here's the peening result with the factory tool. It just forces the ball joint outer edge into the housing slightly to add a bit of lock.
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Brett
“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.
75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
2011 Touareg TDI
2001 NB TDI
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v |
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galencurrington
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2004
Posts: 429
Location: bowling green, ky
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:47 am Post subject: |
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sometimes they can be really hard to take out because they are peened. you have to unpeen them in order to get them out. we stuck them in a press and they wouldn't budge until we unpeened them.
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"asking and getting are two different things" |
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GeorgeO.
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010
Posts: 881
Location: Menifee, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i agree, i have used a little heat to remove them, never to install. GeorgeO...that really sucks.
depending on the company, i have seen the knurl way too big, as if they were oversized. the fix was to put them in a lathe and turn them .001 or so.
i forget when the interference fit is suppose to be. fwiw, i have never peened them either. never had an issue. if they were pressed in the other way around, i could see doing it, but the knuckle pretty much won't allow them to slide out. |
Let me rephrase that: A little heat to remove them is a matter of procedure. I stand corrected. |
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Derek Cobb
Annoying
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2565
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| I love the little puff of smoke in that video. There's some stored up energy there. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42603
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: |
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cool - some folks use two hammers - one against one side and then bang with the other. It helps soften the blow to the torsion arm. Excellent job. Nice video too.
Last edited by SGKent on Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:42 am; edited 2 times in total |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4729
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Link
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4729
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Does the 7249 work well with bus ball joints borninabus? Our shop has one of these for VW cars (bugs, Karmann Ghias, etc) and it works well, but we always thought that the bus ones were so much more heavy duty that the torsion arms had to be pulled out and it had to be done in a hydraulic press. If that c-press works then that would speed things up significantly. |
yes, it works fine.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17858
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
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i agree, i have used a little heat to remove them, never to install. GeorgeO...that really sucks.
depending on the company, i have seen the knurl way too big, as if they were oversized. the fix was to put them in a lathe and turn them .001 or so.
i forget when the interference fit is suppose to be. fwiw, i have never peened them either. never had an issue. if they were pressed in the other way around, i could see doing it, but the knuckle pretty much won't allow them to slide out.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7251
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:52 am Post subject: |
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you will never need heat to press the ball joints into the arm. sometimes a little heat helps in getting them out.
in the original post the OP was not pressing them in properly at first so thought he needed something (heat) to get the joint to seat all the way home. the joints press into the arms with relative ease.
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SL |
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GeorgeO.
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010
Posts: 881
Location: Menifee, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Pressing in ball joints-Busted two collars |
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| shiningstar76 wrote: |
| I bought VW 459, and got them out just fine. But I broke one ball joint collar installing the first, then added a lot of heat and went easy on the second, and ruined that one too. How are these pressed in without destroying the ball joint collar????? |
I don't know how many times I've heard, "never put heat to your arms" and low and behold, the ball joints go in really easy. When these things are forged, these thing are made glowing white hot and applying heat to these things is just a matter of procedure. All you do is just heat them until their hot and then you press the ball joints in. You should see what some joker did to two of my arms when he tried to install ball joints into two arms I gave him.
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tootype2crazy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| borninabus wrote: |
OTC 7249 & VW 459 1/2 are what I use.
Got the press kit from a tool truck & the adapters from www.tools.vw.com.
Pics in my gallery. |
Does the 7249 work well with bus ball joints borninabus? Our shop has one of these for VW cars (bugs, Karmann Ghias, etc) and it works well, but we always thought that the bus ones were so much more heavy duty that the torsion arms had to be pulled out and it had to be done in a hydraulic press. If that c-press works then that would speed things up significantly.
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air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
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1975 Kombi
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ok well I got my vw459/1/2 today and they worked awesome but I also need vw471 which is the peening tool. http://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?type=Tools&ItemId=11190008 I did however notice that one of my ball joints was not peened on the bottom when removing it and it pushed out easier then the peened ones and might have been replaced at some point and that the shaft of the ball joint was too high and higher then the VW tool and I needed to add a metal washer at the top on each side under the metal plate I was using to push the . The removal was a piece of cake but installing them and supporting the bottom by a metal plate on both sides is not easy. One of my support bars moved slightly inward and slightly flattened the metal bottom ridge. I also tried to install a grease nipple and I don't recommend it on flat bottom ball joints. There is only 1mm of material and then the ball is tight to the cup so there is no room.
_________________
Brett
“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.
75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
2011 Touareg TDI
2001 NB TDI
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v
Last edited by 1975 Kombi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| where did you find the tool? i have been looking for quite a long time to buy one myself |
http://vw.snapon.com/specialtoolsdetail.aspx?itemid=2800007
It's sweet. Stamped VW. I don't know if it's an original tool or made for snap-on. But it doesn't say snap-on on it.
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4729
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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OTC 7249 & VW 459 1/2 are what I use.
Got the press kit from a tool truck & the adapters from www.tools.vw.com.
Pics in my gallery.
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17858
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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where did you find the tool? i have been looking for quite a long time to buy one myself
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
that's odd, i have pressed lots of bus ball joints and never seen the collar break due to the joint being too tight in the arm. i damaged a collar once when the support piece below the arm was off centre and in trying to get the joint all the way home it just pushed against my bottom support ring instead and the collar started to break away from the body of the joint. have you got a ring supporting the arm at the bottom? you need clearance under the arm when pressing.
i use a fine flap wheel in a die grinder to clean up the arm hole but you don't want to go to far, the joint needs to be tight in the arm. have you measured the arm holes and the joints? |
That's what happened. I bottomed it out. Thanks Scott.
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7251
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:11 am Post subject: |
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that's odd, i have pressed lots of bus ball joints and never seen the collar break due to the joint being too tight in the arm. i damaged a collar once when the support piece below the arm was off centre and in trying to get the joint all the way home it just pushed against my bottom support ring instead and the collar started to break away from the body of the joint. have you got a ring supporting the arm at the bottom? you need clearance under the arm when pressing.
i use a fine flap wheel in a die grinder to clean up the arm hole but you don't want to go to far, the joint needs to be tight in the arm. have you measured the arm holes and the joints?
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SL |
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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| borninabus wrote: |
you don't just clean them...
get in there with just the right size wire wheel and go to town.
clean out all the rust & junk until you see CLEAN metal all the way around.
since you didn't clean up the torsion arms i could guess that you also didn't grease the new joints when pressing them in.
sometimes it's the simple tasks that can be unexpectedly complicated.
we've all been there  |
Cheers and thanks so much. Maybe we can stop the bleeding at $50. I'm about $500 into this job with the press, joints, and tool. Sounds crazy, but I rehab a bus or two now and then for extra money and the tools will get reused. Hopefully I won't have to buy 4 more joints. 
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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