CSP Disc Brake Conversion

[germansupplyscott]

[mondshine]

(To me) The only reason to use the CSP disc brake kit is when the 5x205 (wide 5) bolt circle on 14" wheels is mandatory.

If the stock Thing wheels will not be used, there are many better (and less expensive) options available for disc brakes.

Good luck, Mondshine

[HMVWNAB]

Is anyone aware whether or not you can get different rotor bolt patterns?

[briankbarnes]

I installed a front disc brake kit from J Bugs and the brake pads rattle, if slight brake pressure is applied the rattle stops. is there a remedy that works to stop this?

[mondshine]

One other item worth mention:

While unavailable in 2013 when I did my CSP conversion, there are now 15X5.5 wide 5 steel wheels (with the correct hub cap clips) available from multiple suppliers; Thing Shop included.

For the person who prefers the stock look, those wheels would be PF close to stock, and allow greater choice for both brake kits and tires.

Good luck, Mondshine

[jakokombi]

I did the AC conversion and used these wheels
https://www.thethingshop.com/THING-PAINTED-WHEEL-15-x-5-5/productinfo/601025CH/
And these tires.
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/5416259594...rmr:1,cs:1

You might find repro split bus wheels or other steel ones cheaper, but I wasn't able to.

Anyway, this may help you to decide.
_________________
70 Sunroof Kombi
85 Motherfukinvanagon
73 Thing
72 Baja

[mondshine]

Seeing this old thread resurrected, I will chime in.

My '74 Thing that had CSP front disc brakes was totaled (rear ended while stopped at a traffic light) just over a year ago.

My replacement Thing has 4 lug 15" wheels, Karmann Ghia front disc brakes and Type 3 rear drum brakes.
Stopping performance is better than with the CSP kit, and I believe that the cost of the wheels, tires, all brake parts (including German MC and hand brake cables), wheel bearings (front and rear) came in at less than the quoted $1900 for the CSP kit.
If all of that stuff didn't cost less then $1900, then it was close enough to play jazz.

All of the "wear items" in my new (to me) Thing brakes are standard VW parts that are easy to get; I am happy with the setup.

Good luck, Mondshine

[lpblasch]

Mondeshine has said that if you want to switch to 15" wheels it might cost about the same as the CSP kit for 14" wheels. He notes that their kit is the only one which will bolt up to stock wheels.

Mine are stock, and the current asking price for the CSP kit is $1,900. With that in mind is it still about the same to switch wheels/tires /other stuff to use one of the cheaper disk brake kits?

[HMVWNAB]

Just an FYI, if you purchase the CSP kit, or anything else for that matter, and they ship it to you from the CP1 Canada location, if you paid with a credit card, you will be charged a "foreign transaction fee" unless your card waives this cost.

A foreign transaction fee is a charge, usually 3 percent, that many credit card issuers and payment networks add for each transaction made abroad. Like baggage and passports, foreign transaction fees have been a standard part of international travel for years. However, more cards are doing away with this fee each year, according to CreditCards.com research.

[Bashr52]

[mondshine]

The reason I suggested "non-wide 5" was to simplify wheel balancing.
This applies to stock steel VW wheels.
If one were to use custom wide 5 wheels that also have a round hole in the center, wide 5 would be fine.
I own a steel disc wheel balance adapter which I bring with me to the tire store.
The wheel is bolted to the adapter with 5 lug bolts, and then the whole assembly is balanced. I weighed all of the lug bolts in my inventory, and selected the five closest, but this method of balancing wheels has to introduce some unwanted variables.

Here's a statue of my UPS man delivering the wheel balance adapter:

Before you take the disc brake leap, read "kubelmann's" write ups on the subject. I didn't heed his advice, with some regret.
Also keep in mind that the selection of 14 inch tires is constantly shrinking, so if you intend to replace tires and wheels at the same time, that's another vote for 15 inch. Also, 15 inch wheels that look just like stock Thing wheels, (take the stock hub caps, etc.) weren't available when I did this conversion; they are now.

But again, if your heart is set on keeping the stock 14 inch Thing wheels (as mine was) the CSP kit is your only option.
I will say again that overall, I am satisfied with the CSP kit.
The car stops very well, predictably, and straight.
Good luck, Mondshine

[HMVWNAB]

[mondshine]

I believe that the caliper brackets and the hubs are the only components that are actually manufactured by CSP.
The rotors are made by Sebro (who manufactures rotors for lots of European cars).

While I am still basically satisfied with the CSP kit, there are some details that are just plain stupid.
For example, there is no provision in the aluminum hubs for removing the wheel bearing races; no place to position a drift punch, unlike every VW drum or rotor I have ever seen. You have to make your own, which is a big disappointment from a costly component made in Germany.
Additionally, you would be hard pressed to find a brake lathe with tooling that could turn the rotors without first removing them from the hubs. Once the hubs and rotors are separated and re-attached, there is no guarantee that the rotors will still be flat and run true (within a grand or so).

Honestly, with all of the B.S. involved, I think the way to go with disc brakes would be to switch to 15 inch wheels; either 4 or 5 lug, but not "wide 5".
Late Type 3's had great brakes; rear drums separate from the rear hubs, and brilliantly engineered front calipers. I wonder if the Type 3 front spindles and wheel bearings are the same dimensions as on Things.
No matter what, the choice of rotors, calipers (even genuine VW) and tires would be greater, and the wheels could be balanced by "anybody".

Too late for me, but maybe others will benefit from my experience.
Good luck, Mondshine

[911pickup]

What about the caliper brackets? I haven't checked-can they be ordered separately from CSP?

[mondshine]

Here’s a little tidbit for those who are using CSP (front) disc brakes.

These kits (with solid rotors) all use the same Delco Moraine calipers made in France.

I have purchased replacement pads from CIP1, because it seemed impossible to find these parts anywhere but online from VW parts suppliers.

Well it turned out that the same Delco Moraine 40-13010 calipers were used on the 1992 Pontiac LeMans 1.6L L4. The Pontiac calipers were manufactured by both Delco and GM’s Korean partner Daewoo.

Now, not meaning to sound like a chauvinist bigot, but my opinion of the difference in build quality between a French or a Korean product is as thin as a sheet of paper.

So on a lark, I ordered a pair of re-man calipers from Rock Auto, just to see for myself.
The Beck/Arnley 0790731 (Left) and 0790732 (Right) are an exact match for the CSP calipers that came with the kit on the business side of the caliper. The "anvil" side of the old CSP calipers would have to be re-used. The two halves of the calipers are attached with two M12 bolts.

The re-man calipers were $18.59 each (including pads and hardware), and they are Delco Moraine, made in France. There were others available for a few dollars more.

So you could walk into the corner auto parts store and ask for calipers, seals, brake pads, hardware, etc. for a ’92 Pontiac LeMans, and pay a small fraction of the price of “CSP” parts that aren’t made in Germany by CSP anyway.

Some part numbers:
Beck/Arnley 0790731 and 0790732 re-manufactured calipers.
Wagner H8204 guide pin boot kit.
Delco 18H195 piston seal and dust boot kit.

Good luck, Mondshine

[hobie16]

[mondshine]

Actually, I have found the opposite. In fact the pedal pressure was reduced to the point that stops from low speeds would occasionally fail to actuate the (new, German) brake light switches. I have taken steps to correct this, but that's another story.
My Thing has the stock sized master cylinder (19mm?) and drum rear brakes, with stock sized wheel cylinders. I believe that only with 4 wheel disc brakes, a larger bore master cylinder is required.
My limited understanding of hydraulics tells me that a larger bore master cylinder will require more foot pressure.

I think you will be very happy with the improvement in braking performance after converting to front disc brakes. Four wheel disc brakes would be nice (no more brake adjustments), but the bang-for-the buck is with the front brakes.
Good luck, Mondshine

[HMVWNAB]

Reading the disc brake install posts in the bus forum, the comment comes up that it seems to take more foot pressure to stop the car with discs.

Have you noticed this with the Thing as well?

[74 Thing]

I know CSP offers a vented rotor with their kits.

AC Industries does not, and CB had a black rotor that is cross drilled.

[HMVWNAB]

I was hoping you would chime in since you’ve been there, done that. Thanks!