Easysteer VW T2 bay electric power steering conversion

[raygreenwood]

I have kind of been watching this thread since it first started simply because the tech seemed interesting.

Yeah, I can see a few people older and/or with disabilities....where this would be a good/useful modification.

My take is that overall it's good technology.

First, from looking at a few pictures from other sites, their site etc....their harness, relay and power controller packaging seems top notch. Looks like modern factory connectors and harness materials.

Next, from digging around it appears it requires 18-20 Amp draw when in operation. Pretty normal for electric power steering but it would be ideal to have the large alternator in your bus and/or have it running from an Auxiliary battery.

The technology....they are using EPS gear motors from existing cars/systems. EPS has been rock solid (at least in foreign cars) for a while and they have been quite reliable. Vw switched to all electric around 2006. The mk5 had an electric rack system meaning it was just a rack and pinion system with the motor built in. Later....maybe mk7 cars....they switched to a system like this where the motor was built into or attached to the steering column and operated a normal unpowered rack.

So this is not strange or unproven technology.

The fear that it could lock up or break a pinion or gear and lock your steering wheel? ....kind of unfounded. Your existing gearbox can do the same exact thing at 50 years old.
If the motor fails....it's just manual steering. I drove my Golf a few miles with the EPS system unpowered doing some suspension diagnostic. Once rolling its just like any other car with no power steering .....maybe slightly stiffer because the gear ratio is high. But in my Golf...at 3300 lbs with a 2.5L five cylinder and five speed trans right in line with the axles....in the driveway trying to turn around sucked!

Man I could see this being great for parallel parking for people in cities who have not really practiced it enough, have weak or short arms or a heavily loaded van.

What I think would be ideal....unless the speed/force ratio is perfect....is to have a switch to turn it off. It may already have that I don't know.

Interesting!

Ray

[mikedjames]

[aeromech]

[redruf]

Is it just me that finds it very annoying having music played on videos??

[Wildthings]

One thing no one has mentioned yet is how would this unit or any PS unit effect driving in the wind. Would it exasperate the over correction that gets people in trouble when hit by a wind guts or lessen it?

I don't spend much of my time trying to parallel park but do spend a lot of time battling the winds.

[derk]

[SGKent]

[tootype2crazy]

[tootype2crazy]

[airkooledchris]

they already make a steering assist product

[chimneyfish]

I met a company called Lite-Steer at a show here in the UK this year, and they let me sit in the bus and try it. I was rather impressed, although I like my original steering.

http://www.litesteer.com/

http://www.litesteer.com/gallery/60-busfest-prize-winner-2012.html

I'm worried that after fitting it, I'd be on the slippery slope to oblivion, I'd wake up one morning in horror, after having gone on a modification frenzy, to find I had also fitted a Subaru engine, slammed the bus to the floor, and no VW logos in sight!

But in all honesty, this is great use of technology for people who have trouble with the heavy stock steering, plus for elderley or disabled drivers, a great accessory, I might buy one when I'm 90 and frail so I can keep rolling along in my bus.

Danbury did it with the Brazilian T2c imports 3 years ago, I understand that after doing a LHD to RHD conversion, they then fit an electric power steering unit from a Ford Fiesta, see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1BggkLelBM
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury)

[Dansux]

I like the idea of retrofitting EPS to a Bus. I would need a lot more information.

The complaint I've read about EPS is if/when the DC motor fails they can freeze up (while driving) and subsequently the steering wheel gets stuck in whatever position it's in at the time.

Not to mention I've never heard of a classic VW with electrical problems…I can't imagine there would be any issues...

[SGKent]

I think what is being said by others is that the commercial does nothing to tell the user how the product works. You are asking me to trust my life to something I know nothing about other than a testimonial of how well it works. Personally before I draw an opinion on the product, I would want to know a lot more about it. Since it is electric we might assume there is an assist motor. If there are gears, what happens if they break and the teeth jam? What about current draw? If the motor pulls 35 amps, I only have a 55 amp alternator to begin with - an early bay has 38 amps max unless they have converted to a larger alternator. These are the kinds of questions that need to be answered before many folks here will consider it. And, the burden to explain their product lies on the manufacturer, and not me to chase the answers down. Nor will I accept a salesman's word that this is the hottest thing since pre-sliced butter. As for Garfield - if it floats his boat he should paper his bedroom with Garfield cartoons. I never liked the comic but that has nothing to do with my non-opinion of the product.

[derk]

Well, I never said its not well engineered. It may very well be. What I meant to say is that I do not see a need in a bus. Back when these buses were built only luxury cars had power steering. I grew up during the sixties and seventies in Germany when these buses where everywhere. I don't remember anyone ever complaining about hard steering.
My father taught me driving (on a squareback) in my early teens (low arm strength) and one of the first things he told me was to only turn the steering wheel while the vehicle is rolling, even if it is only rolling for a couple of inches. That's how people drove back then, before power steering. And it still works. To me it seems to almost never be necessary to do what the people do in the video, yanking on the steering wheel while the vehicle is not moving at all. Even small parking spots usually allow for moving the vehicle back and forth a couple of inches to ease steering.
Maybe lack of driving technique requires power steering on a bus. IMHO.
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70 Westfalia
71 Westfalia
71 Deluxe, now a tin top Westfalia

[Skyline]

It is a well engineered system and has been sucessfully used on many vehicles beyond VW busses.

Needed or not on a bus, it is a proven system and from seeing it on other vehicles, well designed and and practical.

Dismissing it out of hand is as bad as claiming they didn't provide enough engineering evidence.

Call the company and talk with them. All claims of lack of engineering will vaporize. This is coming from an engineer.

[jtauxe]

A few comments:

I can see where power steering could benefit those with low arm strength. In terms of helping people, this is great.

I can't tell if the system is well engineered. It is certainly not demonstrated by engineers. They refer to "force" in one instance (which is in fact what their meter is measuring), but what is relevant here is "torque", which could easily be calculated as force times distance if they gave us the distance from the center of the wheel to the hole the put the gauge in. Later they refer to pounds of "pressure", which is completely wrong. Pressure is force per area. I am guessing that the Easy Steer system, about which they tell us essentially nothing, has an engineer who has worked this out, and that the guys in the video are just installers.

I hate Garfield, as a comic strip. It's a waste of space in the Sunday funnies.

The bus owner clearly is into adding all sorts of silly bling all over the bus. It's hideous.

What's up with the ridiculously loud music (compared to the talking nearer the end)? How is this music relevant to the product being demonstrated? "Kill me if you dare"?

But I can see through all that crap and this may be a good product for those who need it.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[Wildthings]

Put a 2000# load in a Transporter and the steering can get quite heavy. Empty they don't take much force to steer though.

I think the ad has a certain level of BS to it though. The steering of an empty bus is just not as hard as they make out.

[kreemoweet]

Power steering? For a VW bus? You can't be serious! Most of the time
I steer the thing with one finger.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[chazz79]

You couldn't be any more wrong. Please watch a video and put some thought into a post before you toss a properly engineered idea down the crapper. This is electric assist prior to the box. It affects none of vw's engineering just the driver input side of things.
It does nothing other than amplify driver input. Imagine the difference being me behind the wheel (perfectly fine with the bus), my wife (bjtching and struggling), my 9 year old boy (can't steer it at all). This equalizes input so that anyone capable of generating 8 lbs of force can move the wheels. The only thing that is revising extra stress is the column Mount bolts but it looks like there is reinforcements there.

I've installed these kind of items on utvs before but those kits are @1250.00. I never really thought about how this would hold up on a daily driven bus.

There is a market. The engineering is correct. The number of female bus drivers should show you why. My wife will drive my Vanagon because she can parallel park it. She wishes she could do the same in the bus.
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[jakokombi]

Finally! Now I can mount that 9" chrome chain steering wheel!
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70 Sunroof Kombi
85 Motherfukinvanagon
73 Thing
72 Baja