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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10482
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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 Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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That CIP1 fan isn't compatible with the vans this thread is initially about. This thread was about vans that use the smaller fan motor. That link is the larger fan motor. It won't bolt up to the fan shroud meant for the smaller motor and it can pull more amps than the small motor van wiring can handle. Their baloney about swapping fan blades to use it in the other application is just that, baloney. Both the small motor and large motor use a 305mm fan. It is the physical size of the motor that is different, with different mounting bolt pattern and different wiring needed.
As an aside, while the JP Group is based in Denmark and they mention Denmark on their boxes much of what is inside the boxes is made places far from Denmark, such a a place that starts with C and ends with A.Of course they are not alone in this misleading packaging game.
Mark
| LemonCove wrote: |
Another option from a VW aftermarket supplier I didn't see mentioned here: CIP1 - $171 delivered
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D251%2D959%2D455%2DM
Impressed thus far, box says made in Denmark, and includes the fan blade.
VanCafe & GoWesty were out of stock. BusDepot has it, but being on the west coast, I could get it delivered faster (and with free shipping).
Note: In checking the website, I see it's now out of stock. But worth checking when you're in the market ("email when it's back in stock") |
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 4405
Location: SWVA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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| LemonCove wrote: |
\
VanCafe & GoWesty were out of stock. BusDepot has it, but being on the west coast, I could get it delivered faster (and with free shipping).
Note: In checking the website, I see it's now out of stock. But worth checking when you're in the market ("email when it's back in stock") |
Bus Depot drop shipped the fan I bought off them. The fan seems to be pretty good quality.
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"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin |
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LemonCove
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2010
Posts: 324
Location: Henderson, NV
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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Another option from a VW aftermarket supplier I didn't see mentioned here: CIP1 - $171 delivered
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D251%2D959%2D455%2DM
Impressed thus far, box says made in Denmark, and includes the fan blade.
VanCafe & GoWesty were out of stock. BusDepot has it, but being on the west coast, I could get it delivered faster (and with free shipping).
Note: In checking the website, I see it's now out of stock. But worth checking when you're in the market ("email when it's back in stock")
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'88 Bostig Westy |
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 4405
Location: SWVA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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| fleetwood41 wrote: |
Mine locked up a couple years ago - completely seized. I'm lucky I didn't burn my motor to smithereens climbing these hills.
I replaced with the VC/RMW: https://www.vancafe.com/251959455M-p/251959455m.htm
Straight forward install and sounds more like a Cessna than a 747.
Even if it is cheaper somewhere else, the service and responsiveness from RMW is worth it (to me). |
I wouldn't mind that price for an VW unit. However mine is for a pre-86 and not sure if they are out there. So I also invested in a GoWesty coolant temperature alarm should the fan fail and my engine overheat, i'll get an audible alert to check my gauges.
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"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin |
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fleetwood41
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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Mine locked up a couple years ago - completely seized. I'm lucky I didn't burn my motor to smithereens climbing these hills.
I replaced with the VC/RMW: https://www.vancafe.com/251959455M-p/251959455m.htm
Straight forward install and sounds more like a Cessna than a 747.
Even if it is cheaper somewhere else, the service and responsiveness from RMW is worth it (to me).
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1987 2WD w/ 2.5 Subi & Poptop Conversion |
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 4405
Location: SWVA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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| fxr wrote: |
Mine was incredibly noisy. I replaced it with this one from Busdepot:
http://www.busdepot.com/251959455g
Much quieter, especially on high, and a very efficient air mover. |
I bought that replacement. BD came through with some quick shipping. Looks like a solid product - have not installed yet.
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"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2687
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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| shagginwagon83 wrote: |
This thread is awesome. I'm looking to upgrade my radiator fan because its starting to make some noise. I could take it apart - but I think it would be best to replace it with another VW fan.
I have an 83.5 van with A/C (I think dealer installed). I think I'm going to try this. |
Mine was incredibly noisy. I replaced it with this one from Busdepot:
http://www.busdepot.com/251959455g
Much quieter, especially on high, and a very efficient air mover.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 4405
Location: SWVA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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This thread is awesome. I'm looking to upgrade my radiator fan because its starting to make some noise. I could take it apart - but I think it would be best to replace it with another VW fan.
I have an 83.5 van with A/C (I think dealer installed). I think I'm going to try this.
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"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin |
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termuehlen 
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 1036
Location: Redwood City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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Gowesty sells the VW fan for $300. I replaced mine last summer. For my 2WD, I did lower the radiator but did not have to disconnect any of the radiator hoses or drain any coolant. Not sure about a Syncro
Here is more info:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=596575&highlight=radiator+fan+install
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1988 Westfalia automatic Subaru OBD1
1986 syncro tintop wbx |
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Honuak
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Joined: April 21, 2009
Posts: 521
Location: AK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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Resurrecting this thread
I have an 87 syncro that had AC (removed) and the fan just started making a lot of noise...a lot more noise that the considerable amount it already made.
So looking to fix. Can the fan be replaced with out major surgery? (removing the radiator).
VC has an aftermarket $olution, other good options? |
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mdbww
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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I just found this topic by searching for an alternative fan option.. many of the symptoms spoken about here i have. I'm currently working through them.
I have an mTDI AHU with the SC dash ac, high powered SA lights etc.. I also ran a new blue sea fuse block under behind the passenger dash with some 4 gauge. this is now my power for the lights, ac fan and rad fan and other little bits. that helped. one of my favourite mods so far was putting in the LED light kit for tail lights, side lights etc.. nice big drop there.
then i adjusted my IP to get me to a happy 950 idle, otherwise the draw of the fan, compressor etc was close to stalling the van when it was at 700 rpm. its much happier now.
still working on it though... hence why i was curious if anyone had used a spal fan or similar (zirgo).
can anyone tell me which fan i have in my van? bosch 0 130 302 204 is this the dual or triple stage you guys are speaking of? also, any idea what year its off? I'm not sure if this one was stock on 83 diesels.. VAGCAT DOWN!!! WHY!!!!!
i have 2 rads (one for engine coolant, the other for after cooler) and a condenser. no chance of putting a pusher fan.. its packed. so i was thinking of relocating the condenser where the spare usually lives (spare is on tail). then giving the condenser its own low powered spal type fan. this way, the engine rad fan is left alone and the spal can run all it wants.
don't mean to hijack the thread.. just want to keep a nice topic going and add my .02c
thoughts? helpful?
_________________
'83 Vanagon mTDI NAHT - Naartjie SupaZ
'89 golf syncro > 1.8t haldex project - Little Thunder |
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3426
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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| tetonclimberhiker wrote: |
I'm looking for an answer to the question of wether I can replace by noisy radiator fan with a new original replacement model like the one van-cafe sells without removing the radiator? Can this be done? I recently had Small Car install the in dash AC system in my 88 Vanagon without factory AC. My van has a 2.5 Suby motor. Since the install my fan is working almost non stop when the AC is on. One thing they don't mention is that the entire system is dependent on this fan functioning correctly. It seems to me that relying on 25 year old fan is a super weak link in this system. One would think they would have worked through this scenario and have come up with a modern fan system to go with a modern AC set up. But this is where I am now. I'm thinking replacing the fan might be good insurance and hopefully remedy some of the reason the fan is turning on so much. Any thought would be greatly appreciated. Or if there is another thread I should go to.
TetonClimberhiker |
Unless your rad fan is making noise or drawing excessive current (you can measure current draw), it is not likely to need replacement. The factory VW AC system runs the rad fan on low speed any time the AC system is switched on, regardless whether the compressor clutch is engaged. On the SmallCar/Vintage air setup, I do not know if the arrangement is the same, although I suspect it is - - AC on means your fan is on.
One very important thing you might check out is to close the gap between the edges of the condenser and your radiator using weather stripping. This forces all the air that the fan is sucking to come through the condenser instead of coming through the gap between the rad and the condenser.
Having said all that, if your van never had factory AC and is not a Syncro, then you have the smaller, two-speed rad fan and your rig might benefit from the large fan when and if the existing one fails. On that score, I have not been able to remove the 3-speed fan with the rad in the vehicle - - I had to remove the whole rad, if I recall correctly.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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FrankenSubySyncro
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Joined: May 03, 2007
Posts: 638
Location: Vancouver, WA.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
For Syncros with AC and engine conversions I use fans from:
http://www.zirgo.com/
In some case I have a pusher and a puller, or one on either side of the condenser and radiator for amazing control of air flow.
These Zirgos are wisper quiet and draw far less than the stockers. |
Do you have the model number of the fan you use? I don't see vanagon listed in the models choices on the zirgo website.
_________________
Syncronize it!
1987 Franken Syncro (converted 2WD auto)
2004 2.5 SOHC Subaru
F & R lockers, decoupler, SS, 6.17 R&P
Trans Cooler
EMPI race prepped 930 CVs and axles
Bilstein coilover front, rear ProComp MX-6066R shocks, 14" hypercoil springs
30x9.5 15" BFG Muds
Custom skid plates
Nose job (custom front bumper) http://www.flickr.com/photos/subyvanagon/sets/72157624970330925/ |
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tetonclimberhiker
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Jackson, Wyoming
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Radiator fan, less expensive replacement? |
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I'm looking for an answer to the question of wether I can replace by noisy radiator fan with a new original replacement model like the one van-cafe sells without removing the radiator? Can this be done? I recently had Small Car install the in dash AC system in my 88 Vanagon without factory AC. My van has a 2.5 Suby motor. Since the install my fan is working almost non stop when the AC is on. One thing they don't mention is that the entire system is dependent on this fan functioning correctly. It seems to me that relying on 25 year old fan is a super weak link in this system. One would think they would have worked through this scenario and have come up with a modern fan system to go with a modern AC set up. But this is where I am now. I'm thinking replacing the fan might be good insurance and hopefully remedy some of the reason the fan is turning on so much. Any thought would be greatly appreciated. Or if there is another thread I should go to.
TetonClimberhiker |
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68fish
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
| rotaecho wrote: |
Even though this is true regarding watt for watt, there is another factor that could off-set the results to be near the stock while still having less power.
The newer fan has more blades, and those blades are wider towards the center than my older fan's blades. This could give the fan better lift to push air which may result in not needing as much power.
While doing my own low & high tests, I can't tell much a difference if any similar to Mark's test.
| fraggle00 wrote: |
| Watt for watt these will have less cooling capability than the stock fan. The gap between the end of the blades and the housing needs to be minimized for the fan to best pull air through the radiator. |
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If it draws more air, it should draw more watts, if there are gaps in the fan housing then the fan may draw less air thru the radiator also.
The power consumed is really a function of the air moved assuming the design and condition of the motors are equally efficient.
I rather pay the money for the correct fan than risk over heating.
the replacement fan is likely drawing about 8% less air at high setting than the stock fan, seeing as there is roughly about an 8% drop in current,
however since the replacement fan does not fit the stock shroud well, there are likely additional losses beyond the 8% as the fan will tend to draw air from around the large gaps in the shroud, air that did not pass thru the radiator, rather it would draw air that has already gone thru the fan, so the loss in air thru the radiator maybe be greater than the 8% that the reduced electrical load indicates. Not for me, thanks I rather be cool  |
It is also a possibility that the new motor is more efficient and therefore draws less amps to produce the same amount of power. I would imagine there have been many improvements in motor design in over 30 years! |
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rotaecho
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Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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You may have verified this already, but compared to my old/failing fan motor it is a way more silent.
I can't hear it running on low when in the van, but can outside the fan. I felt the air pull from the radiator too.
I haven't been able to get the high to kick on while driving yet, but tested it while doing my electrical to it.
| insyncro wrote: |
| Does the replacement make less noise? |
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-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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mfriquel
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Joined: August 16, 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Lima, Peru
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| I had my radiator fan recently replace with a bit smaller used fan from a Nissan with 4 blades, I was in a road trip and it was my only option , but it works great. I think im just going to keep it in there. |
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61Scout
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Joined: November 06, 2011
Posts: 1297
Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:20 am Post subject: |
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I totally agree with Mark.
I too add a separate panel to keep the juice available for the peripherals that draw more.
The Zirgos I like are similar to LED lighting vs incandescents in the demand that they make for power when active. That's why I like them.
What Mark has shown is a great swap for those not wanting to build an entirely new system and keep VW parts.
He really knows his stuff and I for one appreciate his posts about electrical topics...his others also insightful, but I really dig how he thinks about the distribution of power in our vans. |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10482
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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As I said in the original post it is a lower rated capacity fan. How much difference that will really make is unknown to me. In my experience it isn't that common for vans that use the stock smaller fan to run at high speed very often. With this weaker fan I would expect it to run longer on low and probably kick into high more often than before.
In order for any fan to give its maximum performance it must have a good connection to its power source, including a good ground. In particular the early diesel vans are more likely to have less than ideal power to the fan. I have remedied this on a couple of 82 diesel vans by adding a separate fuse panel for the rad fan and headlights, behind and above the glovebox. This fuse panel is wired to the starter main power stud so it gets a stronger voltage and has a shorter wiring path. I did this in conjunction with an aux battery setup under the front passenger seat and a 90 amp alternator upgrade. The improvement in the headlights was pretty dramatic and likewise with the rad fan performance.
Mark |
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