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zodlaw
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Joined: July 27, 2005
Posts: 580
Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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 Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Its funny you should bring up the meth issue. My buddies that patrol this area call it Sprung Valley opposed to Spring Valley. I hope everyone here realizes that my playing devils advocate is with tongue firmly planted in cheek! 
The collective thought did pass my mind. So if I made a round 5" circle and evenly spaced 7, 3/4" holes forming circle and plugged in a 3/4" light in each one and of course wired them to lite at the same time Would I then be legal? AH, at this point who cares! LOL 
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GI Joe
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Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 2013
Location: Athens, TN
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Does that statute specify if that size is a collective, or singular? Also, does that apply to All motor vehicles, or Commercial(many different rules for the Pros!!)  just opening up more thought for Twister!
As a former LEO, it really has a Lot to do with attitude of the contact... But more so about the intent.... Being a DB when you have a contact with a LEO isn't going to get you anywhere... Of course that type A response from many(not all) LEO's certainly can escalate a situation, rather than deescalate it...
In the end it comes down to priorities..... Shall I spend much effort to make a case against this custom car builder for his smaller, yet more visible, turn signals..... Or put that effort into compliling evidence against that meth dealer around the block.......
As aside, I have a Very similar Amber light for the front of my road rig(Cummins powered Ram) for marker lights on the front airdam. Hope to get them wired up when I get home next week.
Will probably use something similar to add Amber side markers to Our Thing toward the front 1/4 panel, and red on the rear 1/4 panels for added visibility...
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'74 Thing, "Our Thing"....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=60
'71 Beetle RPU
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8080337#8080337
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Not definitive by any means but I think I will run this one by my CHP buddies and see how ruffled they get if at all. I really dont like the looks of those large fender mounted turn lights. I'm probably going about this bass aff aquards anyway... 
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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That 6 sq. in. figure was something I was told back in the '80s when I was in design school. It appears that was incorrect.
Just because I'm into minutiae, and in no way disputing the notion that a police officer will care or not care depending on his mood or the alignment of the planets or who appeared on Dancing with the Stars last night,
According to this NHTSA document, which for some reason doesn't render particularly well in my browser, it says:
2200 sq.mm (3.41 sq. in.) for front (approx. 2" diameter circle)
5000 sq.mm (7.75 sq. in.) for rear (approx. 3-1/8" diameter circle)
If you want to check it out, find "Table IV-a". But I warn you — wading through this tome is likely to piss you off. You mentioned how bright the LED turn signals are. Well, it appears that not only is the surface area specified, but the brightness too. Not only must the turn signals conform to a certain range of brightness, but the comparative brightness of the turn signals to the running lights is also specified. Further, the surface area of the turn signals varies depending on whether they are stand-alone lights or part of a multi light assembly, or as single lights as part of a multi-light array. Egads! |
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
A couple of FYIs:
@ Metal Twister re: the 3/4" LED lights. I agree that they are functionally okay, but if memory serves, DOT says the surface area of a turn signal lens must be a minimum of 6 square inches.
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May well be and it sounds like you know more about it than I, but I have never seen a requirement for a physical size of a reflector or lens? There are requirements as far as to the distance they must be seen. A lot of the jeep guys have nothing but these on the front of their rigs for turn and marker lights and have been inspected many times with no issues? I know this isn't the test for being legal or not. As far as the brightness goes on these bulbs they can be seen across the desert! LOL
http://www.avenger-valkyrie.org/lighting.htm
http://ca.regstoday.com/law/veh/ca.regstoday.com/laws/veh/calaw-veh_DIVISION12_CHAPTER2.aspx#5
I'm sure there are equipment laws I'm not aware of and if in fact there is a size law I sure would like to find it before I do something stupid! Thanks for the heads up. This is going to require deeper research!
These little guys meet SAE PC12 DOT specs.
Edit: I dont see 6 square inches in the LED inserted headlights posted earlier in this thread so I'm not sure? Maybe you get a pass for effort? Hey to be honest I have a lot of friends in law enforcement and it just comes down to if they want to fool with it or not, and how busy they are. Most are very cool A type personality guys that have heard it all. Be cool and get it fixed and they are just fine with it. Be an A personality back and it doesn't end so well! LOL I'm getting stopped all the time in the hot rods just so they can check out the cars. Ive gotten more customers that way!
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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A couple of FYIs:
@ Metal Twister re: the 3/4" LED lights. I agree that they are functionally okay, but if memory serves, DOT says the surface area of a turn signal lens must be a minimum of 6 square inches.
@ Saddlesore re: the 3-in-1 headlights.
I've heard the glass on those lenses is really prone to breakage (from gravel/stones).
ETA:
@ Metal Twister re: SoCal constabulary being all about collecting those fines and fees. That's a big 10-4 good buddy.  |
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure not going to play like know what Mr. Popo is going to say or do. But believe me when I say I've been down this road more than a few times. As a custom car builder I make sure that things are street legal before anything goes out the door. As far as being a smart ass or jerk has nothing to do with getting the once over by the Mr. Policeman. I know exactly how high the head lights can be, how much tire can stick out, and on and on and on. My Cherokee is within the law in every way. But I get pulled over about once a month for a look see. Never get a ticket because I know the laws but that doesn't keep them from trying! LOL All that I was saying is its much cheaper to play by the rules than take the big hit for not.
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mattt
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Joined: January 20, 2004
Posts: 1146
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| saddlesore1 wrote: |
Live in Ca and have been running them for over 2 years. I have yet to get pulled over. If I do, I plan to run the small bolt on ones. They attach to my front bumper. Most cops aren't jerks unless your a jerk back or drive like a maniac and want to get pulled over. It is difficult to tell if someone has front turn signals unless you are pointed toward them. Most people don't use their signal to tell weather they have them or not. The rears are most important. If I need to let someone pointed at me know I am turning left I use the old fashion hand signal.
Also If I get pulled over and am an ass there is a laundry list of non DOT approve items on my car yet I could enter it in a SCORE offroad race and pass, which is stronger than DOT approved. |
You're probably fine as long as you don't drive like a Jackass. Mine hasn't had wipers, wiper motor, etc since I took it off for paint in 2004 and I've not been hassled on the road. My biggest bummer now is a cracked windshield which has kept me from driving it on road. Once I get that fix it ticket, I have a deadline to get it repaired. I'm dreading pulling apart the windshield frame.
You mentioned being built to race spec....do you build the cage from DOM or Chromoly?
I'm not understanding what you mean about the fiberglass not bleeding thru. Every 'glass piece I've seen or worked with was laid up in white and when you chip/break it, it's white all the way thru. Perhaps I just haven't seen anything 'glass that was not made with white gel??
A few more things that I thought of after my earlier post about the various fenders.
The K-1 fenders were sized for a car that originally had a +10" front beam and 3x3's in the rear. Trying to pull the K-1 fenders look off with stock width components makes the Thing look like a "Flying Nun" in my view.
The Socal fenders are about 2" - 2.5" wider and taller and designed for more of a limited build with stock components and length/width. They're wide enough that you still have wheel/tire coverage with larger than stock wheels/tires, but not overly big. My car is running 700's in the front and 31's in the rear with good fender coverage. The Brian fenders appear to be about the same dimensions as the Socal Imports from what I've seen in the pictures posted here.
A few years back I talked to the owner of the blue Thing in post 1 at a desert race. He was considering selling it at that time, not sure what ever transpired with that. Anyway, he had a few fiberglass parts for the car that were from Mexico. I remember him saying he had a fiberglass hood for it. I've never seen or heard of a fiberglass hood for a Thing until he mentioned having one. My point is that his fenders could be one off or a Mexico product, just like the hood he had in the garage.
Add#1...I just realized the red Thing on page 1 with the wheels off is the 181 from Mexico that I first saw the rear fenders on that I have. That car was put together with some skill. Anyone know if that's still a Mexico bound 181 or does it now wear the title....legal or illegal immigrant?
Last edited by mattt on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Shoyrtt
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Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 1113
Location: Redlands, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Pretty funny the "sale" light is a one off damaged light with a crack in the lens.
Here is a link to the lights I got from Moore VW parts:
http://www.mooreparts.com/7591-AC941425/
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ThingOw181
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Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| saddlesore1 wrote: |
Oh did I mention he should have the mold done for the 74's with earmuffs. |
Any chance you have pics of these? I am hoping to be in paint soon and I'd love a chance to run something other than the super cut up looking "flares" I'm going to end up with otherwise. I want to keep the muffs otherwise I would just mount them on the body like everyone else does. |
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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saddlesore1
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Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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i just found these in a search. if i can find them and if they fit im going to get them
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Shoyrtt
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Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 1113
Location: Redlands, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't had any trouble so far with the LEDs in the light housing (see picture on page 1) as far as the Police. I doubt they are going to pull you over for it and there is no increased liability for using them. If you make a left hand turn in front of someone and fail to properly yield, your at fault regardless if you signal or not.
The only difference between Saddlesore1's fenders and mine (both from Brian Coats Fabrication) is that I took a set of stock headlight buckets and glassed them in place to hold the lights and the stock rings. I will agree that after looking at several manufacturers, Brian's fenders were the best as far as quality and fit that I saw out there. And again, I think he is the only one out there who makes them without the turn signal bumps. |
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Are you driving it around as it is in that picture? No wipers, mirrors, turn lights, no front plate... Na, your not driving it like that?
As far as running without lights in California, do as you will... Might want to keep in mind if your involved in an accident your fault or not, without those lights on your vehicle someones insurance company is going to own you! And to be honest what Mr. Savage and his inspection crew @ SCORE thinks isn't going to mean squat? I'm heavy into the 4x4 scene here in San Diego, lighting, tire width stick out, and vehicle height are the things Mr. POPO is looking for in a quick glance. Personally Id rather have something in place not working and get stopped than not having anything there at all? They dont just write fix-it tickets any longer. Now its about the $$$$$$ and the fix is going to be really cheap compared to those violations.
We have found for turn indicators and marker lights these little 3/4" led's are super bright and DOT approved. Drill a 3/4" hole and poke it in for a very clean application. Comes in clear, amber, and red. Just a thought for a clean, easy, and best of all inexpensive fix.
3/4" Super Bright LED 3/4" Clearance Marker
RED LIGHTS
Lights and mounting grommets. Each light mounts in standard 3/4" cut out. Super bright LEDs provide superior light output.
Low LED Amp Draw
100,000 Hour Rated LED Life
Space Saving Design
Meets P2 Requirements
Completely Potted/Sealed Electronics
Hi Impact POLYCARBONATE Lens And Housing
6" Leads
Operating Voltage 12.8 VDC
Amp Draw - 50 MA 
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saddlesore1
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Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Brian's come in white. and yes I have several chips in the paint from rocks or kids leaning their motorcycle against it for a kick stand, etc. ALl the chips are white and do not bleed into the fiberglass.
Brian told me he he saw several fenders in the past and the one you mentioned is very very thin and he set out to make bigger, better, stronger, faster, (I thin that how it went) fender than any others offered. |
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saddlesore1
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Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Live in Ca and have been running them for over 2 years. I have yet to get pulled over. If I do, I plan to run the small bolt on ones. They attach to my front bumper. Most cops aren't jerks unless your a jerk back or drive like a maniac and want to get pulled over. It is difficult to tell if someone has front turn signals unless you are pointed toward them. Most people don't use their signal to tell weather they have them or not. The rears are most important. If I need to let someone pointed at me know I am turning left I use the old fashion hand signal.
Also If I get pulled over and am an ass there is a laundry list of non DOT approve items on my car yet I could enter it in a SCORE offroad race and pass, which is stronger than DOT approved. |
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mattt
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Joined: January 20, 2004
Posts: 1146
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| saddlesore1 wrote: |
| mattt wrote: |
As far as I know, there are 3 different raised/widened front fenders available for the Thing. The first available were from Socal Imports and are about 2.5" wider and taller than stock. I have Socal Imports front on my Thing. Then the ones from Kustom 1 were made available as 'glass knock-offs of the first all steel set of widened/raised fenders that were hand made by Brent?, the builder of "Leopard Thing." In the last few years, saddlesore has been selling the fenders from Brian? I don't know their width/height.
As far as rears, for higher fenders there aren't many options. The Kustom 1 fenders bolt with well nuts to the outside of the body. Again....made by the builder of "Leopard Thing." The only other rears that were taller were made in Mexico back in the day, and I have a set on my Thing. I haven't seen another set like the rears I have in the US. The only others I saw were on a Thing that lives/lived in Mexico and I saw it in San Diego one time. I had to have a set and took a few trips south to get them. You can see pics of the fenders and Thing in my gallery pics. Soon after someone stopped by my place to buy some Thing parts, and checking out my 181, the other rears that are made by Brian? & mount in the stock fender mount holes, and wrap up higher and wider appeared for sale. Coincidence..... |
Not sure what you are inferring Matt.
I have Brian Coats' and yes I advertise for him because I said I would. I get nothing by the way. I promote his because like I said in the past I believe they are the best.
They are similar to all the other "raised and wider" except for the fact that the ugly turn signals have been removed. They are also slightly thicker and are preprimed out of the mold. if you scratch your paint while driving it hard you do not see raw fiberglass. You see the original color that was shipped to you.
As for the rears they are completely different than any others available. They bolt in the stock location so guys like me do not have to drill holes in the side of the body to get the look they want and have them raised 2" and wider to match the front. They look like they belong together.
for these reasons they are "in my opinion" THE BEST AVAILABLE.
Oh did I mention he should have the mold done for the 74's with earmuffs. |
The rear fenders on my 181 bolt into the stock fender mounting holes as well. I didn't want to attach to the outisde or drill other holes to mount them either. No harm, no foul on promoting the fenders at all....I was just pointing out that they are the last(most recent) to market. Those rears mount in the same fashion as the rr fenders on my 181, but have more of a stock appearance than mine. BTW, what are you using for front turn signals with the signal pads being omitted?
Regarding fiberglass thickness....there are different thickness fenders out there. I haven't seen a set of Brian fenders in person, but the Socal Imports fenders were substantially thicker 'glass than the Kustom 1 fenders back when I bought mine in '02? Every set of K-1 fenders I've seen were quite thin, and in my opinion, probably prone to cracking if hit hard enough.
What colors are the Brian fenders offered in? If you ordered say blue fenders, are you saying they are blue all the way thru? Most I've seen were either laid up in white or black. Mine were white when I got them before paint. As rock chips have accumulated over time, the white shows thru on the deeper chips. Are you saying Brian fenders do not show raw 'glass color when chipped? |
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Metal Twister
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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So with that said what are you doing for turn and marker lights in the front? it doesn't appear to have turn indicators in the Head light lens?
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saddlesore1
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Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| mattt wrote: |
As far as I know, there are 3 different raised/widened front fenders available for the Thing. The first available were from Socal Imports and are about 2.5" wider and taller than stock. I have Socal Imports front on my Thing. Then the ones from Kustom 1 were made available as 'glass knock-offs of the first all steel set of widened/raised fenders that were hand made by Brent?, the builder of "Leopard Thing." In the last few years, saddlesore has been selling the fenders from Brian? I don't know their width/height.
As far as rears, for higher fenders there aren't many options. The Kustom 1 fenders bolt with well nuts to the outside of the body. Again....made by the builder of "Leopard Thing." The only other rears that were taller were made in Mexico back in the day, and I have a set on my Thing. I haven't seen another set like the rears I have in the US. The only others I saw were on a Thing that lives/lived in Mexico and I saw it in San Diego one time. I had to have a set and took a few trips south to get them. You can see pics of the fenders and Thing in my gallery pics. Soon after someone stopped by my place to buy some Thing parts, and checking out my 181, the other rears that are made by Brian? & mount in the stock fender mount holes, and wrap up higher and wider appeared for sale. Coincidence..... |
Not sure what you are inferring Matt.
I have Brian Coats' and yes I advertise for him because I said I would. I get nothing by the way. I promote his because like I said in the past I believe they are the best.
They are similar to all the other "raised and wider" except for the fact that the ugly turn signals have been removed. They are also slightly thicker and are preprimed out of the mold. if you scratch your paint while driving it hard you do not see raw fiberglass. You see the original color that was shipped to you.
As for the rears they are completely different than any others available. They bolt in the stock location so guys like me do not have to drill holes in the side of the body to get the look they want and have them raised 2" and wider to match the front. They look like they belong together.
for these reasons they are "in my opinion" THE BEST AVAILABLE.
Oh did I mention he should have the mold done for the 74's with earmuffs. |
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