First Oil Change '01 EV: What happened to the last filter?

[kourt]

On my 2001 AXK, the filter snaps firmly into the cap, and you screw the set into the filter housing.

kourt

[xEVC]

I just changed my filter on my 2000 (12V) engine, which I understand is totally different - no "stamen" so to speak.

But the design is more or less the same: a plastic cap you screw off, and a paper filter that is separate.

However, when replacing the filter I had a question: do you seat the new filter in the plastic cap, and screw the (filter+cap) combo back on?

Or do you slide the filter up into the housing, and then screw the cap back on solo?

Is there a similar issue with the 24 valve filter / cap combo?
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2000 Eurovan Camper (Winnebago)
Upgraded with 16" wheels

[1988M5]

For comic relief from my old shop, Wix is Wack.

BK
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1991 tin top GL
2002 Winnebago Vista. VW VR6 24V Eurovan front clip powered class C 21' RV.
Some BMWs.

[HeyCrutch]

For visual comparison, VW filter next to a Hengst and a Wix:

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[kourt]

I think what's happening is a few things:

1. this is a myth that has some plausibility, because people regard VW (a German car maker) as pedantic and therefore liable to design a so-called "snap-off stem" on their oil filter just for the purpose of serving it up to the customer, even though that idea just doesn't pass any test of careful reasoning or history with regard to the auto industry.

2. the actual factory documents (VW Erwin) for the AXK are somewhat challenging (but not actually hard) to obtain, so many folks are left guessing what the actual procedure is, and don't have a factory reference. The Erwin docs are unambiguous--the stem is part of the oil filter and is not meant to be snapped off.

3. poor aftermarket filter designs by the dozens of companies who want to sell oil filters may mean some design problems, but I doubt this is very significant. Copycatting parts is common and it's easy to manufacture a facsimile oil filter that would work.

4. poor filter housing design on behalf of VW. The post in this thread from JBM3 on 18 Dec 2018 states that the owner in question found remnants of an old filter base in the housing cup. This makes sense for a cause of filter crushing, as the oil filters are meant to snap into the housing cup, creating a potential "left behind" part when an old filter is removed. Rather, this isn't poor design so much as it needs a service note, "check for prior filter parts in housing cup."

5. samba member "copper_90680" has five posts, all made within one week of his Samba join date of 10 Dec 2018. Not a lot of credibility, despite confidently pandering a myth.

6. samba member "abscate" needs no introduction, and slammed the door on the myth by being the first to change his filter after the factory installed it--all with stem on.

7. the Rialtainfo site about AXK oil changes is wrong. That is a good site, but they are perpetuating the myth with bad information. The fact that they use the phrase "The 'snout' may be removed before installation" is enough cause to doubt their credibility.

Looking at the Erwin diagram, the AXK filter housing cup ("Oil filter lower part") has a note:

With short circuit valve, Opening pressure: 2.50 bar (36.25 psi)

My guess is that the stem on the actual oil filter is part of this filter bypass system. But that's just a guess, which is about is good as the myth we're trying to kill in this thread. The engine oil filter will likely work with the stem snapped off, as it is likely part of the failsafe bypass design of the filter housing.

kourt

[67rustavenger]

Thanks Kourt. Now we have the correct answer to this mystery.

That Auto Resource video, when he started the engine post oil change.
That thing was loud.
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[kourt]

Brian, can you determine what brand of (crushed) oil filter came out of your housing? Was it snapped into the housing cover? Is there any blockage in housing itself, in any part, including where the stem goes, that would cause the filter to not seat fully?

I have a spare Mann filter you can have for the right kind of beer.

I'm looking at Erwin for AXK and it clearly shows the stem intact on the filter. The "special note" about the oil filter insert talks about metallic particles in the oil and what to do about it. The special note does not mention anything about snapping off the stem.

Looking at the box for my Mann filter, the lore about snapping off the stem, because it is merely a vehicle for the o-ring, seems unbelievable. That stem makes the box larger, and introduces all sorts of cost and inefficiency into the product. The filter ships with the small o-ring installed on a grooved plastic stem, and it is not easy to remove. If they had intended for the o-ring to be installed somewhere, they would have presented it as a ready-to-install component by putting the small o-ring in a plastic bag with the large o-ring for the housing cover already included in the Mann filter package.

I look at all the aftermarket filter products. Same design--with the stem--when they would have had the chance to make them more efficient, but they didn't.

So the "snap off the stem" theory does not stand up to the sniff test.

Below are three youtube videos that show the AXK oil filter change, with the stem intact.

Let's put this stupid myth to bed.

kourt


Link



Link



Link

[HeyCrutch]

[67rustavenger]

[Endopotential]

Apologies for the slight digression - in Abscate's diagram above, what is that rectangular housing above the number 7? Is there anything there that needs maintenance during the course of an oil change?

[bcolins]

I am following a post/conversation over on the Facebook "Eurovan Camper" page where a tech is stating that the post MUST be broken off before installation. So, reviving this conversation here. My 2003 VR6 24 filters always come out crumpled as shown in the OP's pic.

[VanGeek]

Just performed an oil change on my 2001 weekender and I reviewed this thread after pulling a slightly squashed filter (that I installed previously) from my housing.

I've installed a new Mann HU719/7X filter, and compared it with the old one. Looks different and the snout on the old filter isn't removable. In my vehicle log, I wrote a comment that the prior filter was also a Mann filter but can't find my receipt for it and it's definitely "the same" filter in overall appearance but is constructed differently.

Without attaching the new filter to the bottom cap, I inspected the filter housing and then pushed the new filter into it -- with snout on and snout removed. The depth that the filter could fit into the housing was not limited by the snout. So me thinks this is a non-issue as long as you order the correct filter!

[JMB3]

It would be helpful if you would provide a photo of the inside of your plastic cap. Back in November of 2015 there was a thread 'Oil Filter Pleats Crushed' on the ev_update list. The OP provided this photo of his cap: https://www.flickr.com/photos/goat_mountain/23303213705/in/album-72157625677878424/
If you know what the bottom of the cap is supposed to look like, you can see the problem. There is a piece of an old filter still stuck in there. The OP thought this was a correct, integral part of the cap - a 'bottom disk' he called it. But no - it's just garbage left behind from a filter that came apart. Check your cap for something like that. In this guy's case he used a couple of screws to yank out the garbage piece: https://www.flickr.com/photos/goat_mountain/23053855040/in/album-72157625677878424/ (This was an AES engine.)

[copper_90680]

Abscate,

What you show there is also what I get from the Bentley manual, but the filter gets crushed every time I left the snout on, and those are filters I got from the VW dealers too.

If you can install with the snout and without crushing the filters, I need to know which brand of filter you are using.

Thanks

[Abscate]

I've installed every single oil filter on my T4 with the snout, and it came from the factory with the snout. Is there any doc on this from VW?

This is what I have

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[copper_90680]

Abscate,

The filter for the 12V AES engine is different from what you see here. The snout isn't there.

What you see here is for the 24V AXK engine. You must remove the snout before installing it.

By the way, just like you said, there are lots of misinformation out there. The drain plug on the oil filter cap is not just for the AXK engines. The AES engines have them too.

[Abscate]

The snout has nothing to do with the drain oring on the bottom of the housing.

I suspect earlier VR6 engines don't use the snout while the later 24 valves do.

If you are in a cold climate it could behind cold oil pressure deformed the filter pleats , but they look to be filtering well with no sludge.

I went looking for info on the webs about the T4 oil change and about 80% of them had bad information btw.

The 24 Vr6 has a separate drain plug integral to the 36mm cap that lets you drain the filter before removing it. It has its own oring. I think it's a 6 mm hex plug
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[Gruppe B]

[copper_90680]

That snout must be removed before the oil filter is installed. The snout is only there to hold the o ring. I have no idea why VW would be this stupid, but if you don't remove that snout the filter will be crushed like that.

It's not a manufacturing problem, it's a freaking VW design stupidity.

[Abscate]

Using power tools to open the belly pan made oil changes a snap on my EuroBuss.
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