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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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 Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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Nice to hear it got all worked out.
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Dubskii
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 385
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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Got her to fired up and cruise around! Ultimate diagnosis...multiple system failures...Needed a new battery, fuel pump and starter. I replaced the rubber fuel lines and filter for good measure. I appreciate everyone's input.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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Well, there you go. You can replace that old bushing if you want (use a thread tap, turn it into the old bushing, then pry it out. The new one just taps into place), and reinstall that starter, but the self supported version is a simple swap. Maybe next time you have the engine out, swap out that bushing (super easy with no engine in there) so if you have another start failure, you can fit either style back in there in a pinch.
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Dubskii
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 385
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
The engine spins freely when doing the above.
As for the relay...I ordered a new and should receive in the next day or two. Will update once that is checked off. |
Other than days like today, that relay is readily available at any local parts place. Probably under fifteen bucks, too. |
Well it wasn't the relay. The only thing to do now is pull the starter and have it tested. As I mentioned before, I crossed the starter to the battery and it whirled into action but didn't cross the battery to the solenoid. By doing the latter is that effectively "hot wiring"? I did check the terminals and connections at the ignition switch which were tight and non-corroded. |
Before pulling the starter, try jumping across the terminals on the solenoid. A crappy screwdriver or pliers is best, since it will make sparks and try to weld things. Wear safety squints, and make damn sure the bus is in neutral.
Also, did you try turning the engine over by hand to feel for binding? Simple and free tests are always worth the time it takes. |
Jumped across the solenoid terminals; it cranked once. Also when under bus I cleaned the trans ground strap. Still same one crank. I am able to manually turn the engine. I figure bad starter. Thoughts?? |
Engine turns over smooth by hand? Just your normal high compression spots, nothing binding?
It does appear that maybe the starter is faulty. Probably worth a try replacing it. Might as well get one of those meant for an auto stick car, then you need not worry about the support bushing in the transmission housing. Also, it can more easily be bench tested in the future since the main shaft is self-supported..
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Removed the starter. As you can see, the bushing is bad and there were shavings everywhere. Cleaned it up and will pick up a new starter similar to what cdennisg showed above. Hopefully this pig will fire up once replaced!!?? Will report back as soon as I can.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| Dubskii wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
The engine spins freely when doing the above.
As for the relay...I ordered a new and should receive in the next day or two. Will update once that is checked off. |
Other than days like today, that relay is readily available at any local parts place. Probably under fifteen bucks, too. |
Well it wasn't the relay. The only thing to do now is pull the starter and have it tested. As I mentioned before, I crossed the starter to the battery and it whirled into action but didn't cross the battery to the solenoid. By doing the latter is that effectively "hot wiring"? I did check the terminals and connections at the ignition switch which were tight and non-corroded. |
Before pulling the starter, try jumping across the terminals on the solenoid. A crappy screwdriver or pliers is best, since it will make sparks and try to weld things. Wear safety squints, and make damn sure the bus is in neutral.
Also, did you try turning the engine over by hand to feel for binding? Simple and free tests are always worth the time it takes. |
Jumped across the solenoid terminals; it cranked once. Also when under bus I cleaned the trans ground strap. Still same one crank. I am able to manually turn the engine. I figure bad starter. Thoughts?? |
Engine turns over smooth by hand? Just your normal high compression spots, nothing binding?
It does appear that maybe the starter is faulty. Probably worth a try replacing it. Might as well get one of those meant for an auto stick car, then you need not worry about the support bushing in the transmission housing. Also, it can more easily be bench tested in the future since the main shaft is self-supported..
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Dubskii
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 385
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
The engine spins freely when doing the above.
As for the relay...I ordered a new and should receive in the next day or two. Will update once that is checked off. |
Other than days like today, that relay is readily available at any local parts place. Probably under fifteen bucks, too. |
Well it wasn't the relay. The only thing to do now is pull the starter and have it tested. As I mentioned before, I crossed the starter to the battery and it whirled into action but didn't cross the battery to the solenoid. By doing the latter is that effectively "hot wiring"? I did check the terminals and connections at the ignition switch which were tight and non-corroded. |
Before pulling the starter, try jumping across the terminals on the solenoid. A crappy screwdriver or pliers is best, since it will make sparks and try to weld things. Wear safety squints, and make damn sure the bus is in neutral.
Also, did you try turning the engine over by hand to feel for binding? Simple and free tests are always worth the time it takes. |
Jumped across the solenoid terminals; it cranked once. Also when under bus I cleaned the trans ground strap. Still same one crank. I am able to manually turn the engine. I figure bad starter. Thoughts??
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69 Sunroof Deluxe - Montana Red/Cloud White (Sold)
57 Kombi - Dove Blue http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648240
WTB Early Dove Blue Bus Driver's Side Door
WTB Joe Heishman VW Arlington, VA License Plate Frame or Other Memorabilia |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:51 am Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| Dubskii wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
The engine spins freely when doing the above.
As for the relay...I ordered a new and should receive in the next day or two. Will update once that is checked off. |
Other than days like today, that relay is readily available at any local parts place. Probably under fifteen bucks, too. |
Well it wasn't the relay. The only thing to do now is pull the starter and have it tested. As I mentioned before, I crossed the starter to the battery and it whirled into action but didn't cross the battery to the solenoid. By doing the latter is that effectively "hot wiring"? I did check the terminals and connections at the ignition switch which were tight and non-corroded. |
Before pulling the starter, try jumping across the terminals on the solenoid. A crappy screwdriver or pliers is best, since it will make sparks and try to weld things. Wear safety squints, and make damn sure the bus is in neutral.
Also, did you try turning the engine over by hand to feel for binding? Simple and free tests are always worth the time it takes.
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Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two. |
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Dubskii
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 385
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:16 am Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
The engine spins freely when doing the above.
As for the relay...I ordered a new and should receive in the next day or two. Will update once that is checked off. |
Other than days like today, that relay is readily available at any local parts place. Probably under fifteen bucks, too. |
Well it wasn't the relay. The only thing to do now is pull the starter and have it tested. As I mentioned before, I crossed the starter to the battery and it whirled into action but didn't cross the battery to the solenoid. By doing the latter is that effectively "hot wiring"? I did check the terminals and connections at the ignition switch which were tight and non-corroded.
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69 Sunroof Deluxe - Montana Red/Cloud White (Sold)
57 Kombi - Dove Blue http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648240
WTB Early Dove Blue Bus Driver's Side Door
WTB Joe Heishman VW Arlington, VA License Plate Frame or Other Memorabilia |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| Dubskii wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
The engine spins freely when doing the above.
As for the relay...I ordered a new and should receive in the next day or two. Will update once that is checked off. |
Other than days like today, that relay is readily available at any local parts place. Probably under fifteen bucks, too.
_________________
Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two. |
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Dubskii
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 385
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
The engine spins freely when doing the above.
As for the relay...I ordered a new and should receive in the next day or two. Will update once that is checked off.
_________________
69 Sunroof Deluxe - Montana Red/Cloud White (Sold)
57 Kombi - Dove Blue http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648240
WTB Early Dove Blue Bus Driver's Side Door
WTB Joe Heishman VW Arlington, VA License Plate Frame or Other Memorabilia |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15454
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| If you turn the engine using a wrench on the pulley nut what happens? |
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Emeraldlion
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 754
Location: Texarkana, TX
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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Ok sorry you hadn't been very clear about that. One place I thought you said it did crank. In your last post you said one turn of the engine, which is hard to distinguish whether you mean crank or firing. If you can only get one crank and nothing else then you don't even need to look at spark or fuel or air.
If you take the starter off see if it spins freely with power. If it does then the starter gear and flywheel are binding or your engine has partially seized or too tight.
Edit: read that last post again, when you said you bridges the battery and it spun perfectly do you mean the engine cranked over and over fine without issue?
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1961 SWR Kombi |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| Emeraldlion wrote: |
| Have you tried shooting starter fluid down the carb throat while cranking? Are you sure your float bowl is full? I had a situation where my float bowl was nearly dry and my pump wasn't primed(had run dry). Didn't have any extra gas to fill bowl so had to keep engine running on the starter fluid briefly until the engine pulled enough vacuum to fill the float bowl. |
If the starter isn't spinning the engine, no amount of starter fluid will help.
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Emeraldlion
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 754
Location: Texarkana, TX
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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Have you tried shooting starter fluid down the carb throat while cranking? Are you sure your float bowl is full? I had a situation where my float bowl was nearly dry and my pump wasn't primed(had run dry). Didn't have any extra gas to fill bowl so had to keep engine running on the starter fluid briefly until the engine pulled enough vacuum to fill the float bowl.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| Dubskii wrote: |
Gas in tank.
New battery.
New coil.
Spark at the distributor.
Spark at the plugs.
Ignition switch is not corroded and connections tight.
Hard start relay fuse is good.
Bridged the battery + to the starter and it spun perfectly.
Jumped battery + to coil +.
I get one turn of the engine and that is it.
Had a neighbor hook up jumper cables and still only one turn of the engine.
At a loss... |
Something is amiss in the starter circuit. You mention the hard start relay FUSE, but what about that relay? Does it click when you are getting no crank? It is a cheap and easy thing to replace.
EDIT: just a thought, try pulling the spark plugs to see if the engine spins freely with no compression. If not, definitely a starter issue or the engine rotating assembly is binding up somehow. If so, it points directly at a starting circuit issue.
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Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two.
Last edited by cdennisg on Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dubskii
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 385
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:54 am Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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Gas in tank.
New battery.
New coil.
Spark at the distributor.
Spark at the plugs.
Ignition switch is not corroded and connections tight.
Hard start relay fuse is good.
Bridged the battery + to the starter and it spun perfectly.
Jumped battery + to coil +.
I get one turn of the engine and that is it.
Had a neighbor hook up jumper cables and still only one turn of the engine.
At a loss...
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57 Kombi - Dove Blue http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648240
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| 7.7V at coil while cranking. |
Which side of the coil did you check?
Try a jumper wire from the battery + to the coil + then crank it. |
This is a good point. just remember that when you jumper the coil, you cannot turn the engine off at the switch, gotta yank that wire off.
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BarryL
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15454
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| Dubskii wrote: |
| 7.7V at coil while cranking. |
Which side of the coil did you check?
Try a jumper wire from the battery + to the coil + then crank it. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20976
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| Dubskii wrote: |
| Must be elect ignition. Do those have a habit of just not working one day? |
Yes. Yes they do. Install a set of points and a condenser. If you wanna put a new electronic setup in there, always keep a set of points in the bus, and the tools to swap 'em in.
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Dubskii
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 385
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: 57 Kombi |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Dubskii wrote: |
| Sorry. It never fires. Sometimes it cranks and cranks and cranks and nothing. Sometimes it cranks once and nothing. Either scenario it seems like the new battery runs out of juice but when I check with a voltmeter I have 12+volts. |
12 volts at the battery? What about at the coil (key on)? Also at the starter while hitting the key? Something ain't right. I am predicting a bad ignition switch. Could be wrong. |
12.4V at the battery, 10.4V at the coil (key on), grounding straps clean, dist. cap clean, I have an electronic ignition and a hard start relay kit to boot. I am stumped... |
That coil voltage may be too low to fire the electronic ignition. Did you test the coil voltage while cranking the engine? Gotta have a helper for that one.
Electronic ignition may have failed, too. Have you checked for spark at the coil wire or a plug wire while cranking? I have had those units fail on me twice, while on road trips. Glad I had a few sets of points with me. |
7.7V at coil while cranking. No spark at the cool wire. Must be elect ignition. Do those have a habit of just not working one day?
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