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CapnMark
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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Thanks Gent's.
I'll give Nate a call this week and see what he suggests. He also does a Type 1 bolt in kit, which if I use T2 or 944 CV joints with, I should be able to stay up in the nosebleeds.
The reason that I was asking about track width, is that I was running a straight axle conversion last year and could not get the wheels off if I got a puncture. I had around 3mm of clearance on the wheelarch lip each side. That said, it was at least 3 1/2 inches lower than stock.
Busstom, thank you for the offer. If I decide to go with the 944 setup, I will get in contact with you. |
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sambaphil
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2009
Posts: 206
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| CruisinMark wrote: |
Thanks Phil.
What brakes are you running on the back of yours? I have been considering 944 discs, partly because I already own a set complete with trailing arms, but I'm concerned that they may widen my rear track too much by the time I add wide 5 adaptors.
Nice looking bus, by the way! |
Hey Mark,
As a part of Nate's kit, he shipped spring plates, backing plates, brake cables, trailing arms, and rear drums from a 70 bus. They were totally assembled and ready to bolt on.
As far as a bolt on IRS kits, that is what I wanted and tried to go with the busboys bolt on kit but they are out of biz. The Wolfgang ones could work. I even tried to buy a kit from Australia without luck. Talk to Nate. He will give you his perspective and input. Let us know what you do!
_________________
Link to 1966 Samba Build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607420
Link to 1971 Bay Bus - Clipper - L
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671945&highlight=
Single Port Samba Phil
[email protected] |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| CruisinMark wrote: |
| What brakes are you running on the back of yours? I have been considering 944 discs, partly because I already own a set complete with trailing arms, but I'm concerned that they may widen my rear track too much by the time I add wide 5 adaptors... |
Mark, if you go this route, let me know if you still need the wide-5 adapters. I believe I have the config you would need (5-130 hub to 5-205 wheel), and I'd cut you a great deal, they are new, from Wolfgangs, and I'm not running them. I only need one to use for my tire changer, so that oddly leaves me 3 extra. I'm guessing you'd only need two.
I can't comment on how wide your wheel track would get, but I did narrow mine a half inch per side by sliding the bolt-on IRS brackets in toward the horns and mounting my trailing arms INSIDE the spring plates. I have custom off-road trailing arms in Type-1 config.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)
| cory464 wrote: |
| if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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CapnMark
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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Thanks Phil. I think I am leaning towards the bolt in kit, purely because I don't want to cut my bus, although the weld in kit probably works better if I can get past that. I spoke about this at length with Joel from Rusties at a couple of shows this summer, after he did your conversion. I think I'll give Nate a call this week and try to establish exactly what I am going to do.
What brakes are you running on the back of yours? I have been considering 944 discs, partly because I already own a set complete with trailing arms, but I'm concerned that they may widen my rear track too much by the time I add wide 5 adaptors.
Nice looking bus, by the way! |
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sambaphil
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2009
Posts: 206
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| CruisinMark wrote: |
I have a '57 11 window and am seriously considering either a Wagenswest or Wolfgang IRS. They seem fairly similar and prices are the same - what are other people's experiences?
I like the idea of being close to stock height and Wolfgang advertise that running a Type 181 IRS transmission with 181 CV joints will allow you to do this, but have read numerous comments about CV boots failing, presumably due to the large angles. How realistic is stock height with IRS and if not reliable, what is the minimum sensible drop in height I would need to get this working right? I am looking for reliability and driveability. Could I fit 181 CV joints into a T1 transmission?
Yes, a lot of questions, but I want to get it right! Thank you! |
Hey Mark,
So I was one of the first stock height buses using this kit from Wagonswest. In the end, it turned out that I used large angle CVs on both outer and inners. Nate shipped me bus cups for the inner so the large angle CVs fit. Nate makes quality stuff, rear brakes, rebuilt IRS trans with 3.88RP, new bus axles. Nate helped me get it all dialed in.
For me, it was more than worth it. My bus looks totally stock, but it cruises at 65 and is stable even in wind. If you can cut and weld, its a do it your self situation.
[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1574886.jpg[/img
_________________
Link to 1966 Samba Build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607420
Link to 1971 Bay Bus - Clipper - L
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671945&highlight=
Single Port Samba Phil
[email protected] |
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Harleyelf
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009
Posts: 1573
Location: Appleton, WI
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:18 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| Yes, you can use a type 1 transmission with 181 CV joints. You just have to change out the drive stubs on the transmission. They use the same snap rings as the CV joints. The joints will clear your transmission mount horns by a few mm. |
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CapnMark
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:22 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| Thanks for the responses. It looks like the way forward. |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12546
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| CruisinMark wrote: |
I have a '57 11 window and am seriously considering either a Wagenswest or Wolfgang IRS. They seem fairly similar and prices are the same - what are other people's experiences?
I like the idea of being close to stock height and Wolfgang advertise that running a Type 181 IRS transmission with 181 CV joints will allow you to do this, but have read numerous comments about CV boots failing, presumably due to the large angles. How realistic is stock height with IRS and if not reliable, what is the minimum sensible drop in height I would need to get this working right? I am looking for reliability and driveability. Could I fit 181 CV joints into a T1 transmission?
Yes, a lot of questions, but I want to get it right! Thank you! |
I did my own "conversion" using late phatchick parts. It ended higher than stock by about an inch. Yes, at the extreme angle for both inner Bug and outer bus CVs but run fair enough at least for me. I could go a bit lower but then I have to lower the front beam too. And yes on the need to replace boots a bit more often than could be, but it is way easier than than of straight axles. The best thing is the ease to install/remove the center section transaxle! 
Did this way back in the fall of '09 and it's still running great! No regrets! 
To "IRS" or "not to IRS", that is the Q
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Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise. |
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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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Phil, I hope to see your IRS conversion at some point. I have some interest in doing this for my camper but it seems like it's a pretty involved (and expensive) set up.
What is the gearing in your transaxle? My big nut has a 3:88 R&P with stock size tires. I'm curious how much taller the gearing is in comparison.
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59 DD panel. Former Romano's TV delivery bus
67 Westy SO-42 pop-t |
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joe56vw
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004
Posts: 3202
Location: Olympia wa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| CruisinMark wrote: |
I have a '57 11 window and am seriously considering either a Wagenswest or Wolfgang IRS. They seem fairly similar and prices are the same - what are other people's experiences?
I like the idea of being close to stock height and Wolfgang advertise that running a Type 181 IRS transmission with 181 CV joints will allow you to do this, but have read numerous comments about CV boots failing, presumably due to the large angles. How realistic is stock height with IRS and if not reliable, what is the minimum sensible drop in height I would need to get this working right? I am looking for reliability and driveability. Could I fit 181 CV joints into a T1 transmission?
Yes, a lot of questions, but I want to get it right! Thank you! |
Wagenswest kit comes with spacers that push the CVs out farther from the tranny which would make clearance not an issue
I bought the wagenswest kit and it looks awesome but i haven't installed it yet so can't comment on that but personally i have had several bad experiences with wolfgang and would never buy anything from them again
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'60 15 window walkthrough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559931&highlight=
why is there no sarcasism button on here? |
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CapnMark
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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I have a '57 11 window and am seriously considering either a Wagenswest or Wolfgang IRS. They seem fairly similar and prices are the same - what are other people's experiences?
I like the idea of being close to stock height and Wolfgang advertise that running a Type 181 IRS transmission with 181 CV joints will allow you to do this, but have read numerous comments about CV boots failing, presumably due to the large angles. How realistic is stock height with IRS and if not reliable, what is the minimum sensible drop in height I would need to get this working right? I am looking for reliability and driveability. Could I fit 181 CV joints into a T1 transmission?
Yes, a lot of questions, but I want to get it right! Thank you! |
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sambaphil
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2009
Posts: 206
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| sambaphil wrote: |
Hey All,
Just as a sanity check here. Does +3 mean "clockwise?" And -3 mean counter clockwise?
In the middle of it now.... |
That depends on which side of the bus which you are working.
Just make sure you do one in each direction to gain the change you want. When you have your hands on it, and think about what is happening, the light bulb will go on in your head again and it all becomes really, really simple. |
Got it...now just eyeballing and using level and tape measure after rolling it around. Looking good, needs a few 1/4 inches lower on one side. Thanks for all your help.
_________________
Link to 1966 Samba Build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607420
Link to 1971 Bay Bus - Clipper - L
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671945&highlight=
Single Port Samba Phil
[email protected] |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20830
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| sambaphil wrote: |
Hey All,
Just as a sanity check here. Does +3 mean "clockwise?" And -3 mean counter clockwise?
In the middle of it now.... |
That depends on which side of the bus you are working.
Just make sure you do one in each direction to gain the change you want. When you have your hands on it, and think about what is happening, the light bulb will go on in your head again and it all becomes really, really simple.
_________________
Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two.
Last edited by cdennisg on Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sambaphil
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2009
Posts: 206
Location: Bellingham, WA
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20830
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| sambaphil wrote: |
I am good at wonky. i will be marking things up to get back to where i was. I bought a "white" sharpie which is pretty cool.
Can't be too bad though, its just angles. Crap...just jinxed myself.  |
I don't even bother with calculating angles. Just make measurements to the floor from the same point every time. When you reach your desired change in height, bolt that stuff back together.
_________________
Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two. |
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sambaphil
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2009
Posts: 206
Location: Bellingham, WA
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20830
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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| cru62 wrote: |
| Spring plates on a bus are a breeze. They aren't preloaded against the bottom stops like a bug. Just pry them off making sure not to pull out the torsion bar from the housing. Of course, this after marking the original orientation of the bar to plate and plate to housing. |
Yes. I usually make a vertical line top to bottom over the whole thing. That way, If things get wonky, you can always go back to your starting point.
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Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two. |
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cru62
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Margaritaville.....24/7
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:58 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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Spring plates on a bus are a breeze. They aren't preloaded against the bottom stops like a bug. Just pry them off making sure not to pull out the torsion bar from the housing. Of course, this after marking the original orientation of the bar to plate and plate to housing.
_________________
"My biggest worry is that when I die, my wife will sell all my parts for what I told her I paid for them"-Jon
Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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sambaphil
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2009
Posts: 206
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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OK...looks like I have the math. My approach, do math, measure from floor, eyeball, make fine adjustments, and get as close as I can to stock height. Roll the bus around the block a few times, see if all is good.
Thanks again for all the input from the community. Super helpful. I love videos so I will make a video of the highlights and post it. Work slated with my friends for Sunday. Need to research the best way to get the spring plates off safely.
Cheers,
SP
_________________
Link to 1966 Samba Build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607420
Link to 1971 Bay Bus - Clipper - L
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671945&highlight=
Single Port Samba Phil
[email protected] |
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Fredrok
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2014
Posts: 227
Location: Under the evergreens. CO
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:35 am Post subject: Re: IRS Bolt on Like BusBoys (Are They Out of Biz?) |
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