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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 886
Location: Rialto. CA
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 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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So has anyone installed a polo engine in a type 1 ???
Would one fit in a type 1 deck lid fully closed ??
How much bigger are the cases to a type 4 case since we already know a type 4 fits in a type 1 ??? |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3658
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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In the video you mention it "Drinks alot of fuel". What type of MPG are you getting? If its drinking alot of gas, there is some room for more horsepower via tuning/jetting. The video is not super clear, but are those dual idfs? Even at your 180-200hp mention these should be getting 20-22 mpg even when having fun.
Thats one of the advantages of Hot rod vw's, you can have fun and you dont need to be the victim of 10 mpg like V8 carbureted cars |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1867
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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Link
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stallion777
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 94
Location: Maryland
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stallion777
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 94
Location: Maryland
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stallion777
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 94
Location: Maryland
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 886
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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| The only problem with with polo engines is the complicated timing still same as the 6cylinder 😣😠😡😠 it's not so easy to much guessing why couldn't there just be timing marks so that it's straight forward thing.. nope you gotta be guessing and playing and trying to get it as close to the right timing 👎👎 |
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stallion777
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 94
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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Finishing up my beetle. While I could not get a Polo motor (amazing engine but too pricey for me) I did get a type 4 motor. Its a 2385cc. Still finishing up things before I can drive it. This is my build page, Might be a fun read for some of you.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lovebugfans/herbie-2-0-t10603.html |
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dsrtfox
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 443
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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Lars,
The use of any Porsche 5 speed would require converting your T1 to IRS. That ain't easy and it's a one way trip with no way back. It would also destroy the value of your car but maybe you don't care... |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15023
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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In my opinion it's not so much how many gears you have, it's how usable are they. That has everything to do with how well gear ratios and final drive ratios match the power curve of the engine.
Back years ago I turboed my Rabbit and suddenly found first gear was useless and I was out of gears already on the on ramp before I even got to the highway. The solution I chose was to pick up a 5 speed with it's higher ratio 5th gear but first was still a waste of time. So effectively I still only had a 4 speed. Had the parts been available at the time a final drive ratio change would have done just as much good.
If the car is light enough and/or the engine powerful enough you can't humanly shift fast enough to take full advantage of mega multi speed transmissions anyway. That is why the old 2 speed slush box used to be so popular in the big block drag rails. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23947
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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| dsrtfox wrote: |
| How ever.....I don't think there very many guys that daily drive a 200hp Type 1, or any air cooled VW for that mater. Most are hobby cars that get driven 2 to 3 K a year. In 30 or 40 thousand miles with your big stroker Type ! your going to have to address valves and guides so how many years will that be? Would you put a Polo engine in your pride and joy and then daily drive it, I doubt it. Just sayin... |
I dont have a clue how much hp my 2028 has.but it's my only car, so it's my daily driver.and it don get driven eazy. and now with over 80000 miles it's still doing just fine. like I said before .if you cant rely on your motor... you need a new engine builder. and this motor is my spair, made form used stuff laying around the shop 8 or 9 years ago. the case was new and the p&c were nos berg slip in's full of rat pis&pits.gotta love these totalseal rings& torque plate honing. the rod bearings&cam bearings were also new.the rest was used...well used. and it was a 2 day build....as in the main bearings were driving around in my 2332 in another case, on another crank 2 days before. as was the cam&gears&lifters too.
as for how many people drive their shit i dont know I dont drive their shit only mine. I do know a lot of people that do not trust thier cars....I got news for them it's not the cars fault!!! you just cant fix stupid. |
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larsmula
Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor - Transmissions?? |
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I have loved this thread and hope to one day be the proud owner of a polo engine one day. BUT on thing that has not been addressed in this chat is the transmission / gearbox to handle the power of these engines, be they type IV or the polo.
I also wonder about what your opinions are about the 4 speed vs 5 speed transmissions as well? When porsche jumped up to the higher levels of horse power it also was more or less accompanied by another gear. BUT usually putting a gearbox with the extra gear requires cutting and welding which is not nice to do to any body. Of course we can change some of the ratios in the box, but then for highway driving or daily driving it is still more comfortable to use a 5th gear.
SO engines aside. could someone help with some advice on what transmission combo could accompany these power engines, both a 200hp Type 4 or one to fit with a polo. FOr me it would be a POLO + 5 speed in a 1956 porsche 356A.
_________________
larsmula
1956 356a Coupe
1966 Kombi Split Dual Cab
1960 356b Coupe (sold)
1973 Beetle L (sold) |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15023
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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dsrtfox - we are singing from the same Hymn book man! 
cmpski - Ok, I worded that wrong. I am well aware of the mechanical differences between that gorgeous Polo engine and a "type 1" engine with all the modern tricks. Neither of the engines have any direct linage to the 356, both have had mega investment in time, development and money to bring them to their present state of sophistication. It is totally unfair to compare the time and money invested in the few examples of the Polo engine without taking into account the hundreds of thousands of dollars and hundreds of people involved in bringing the modern "type 1" specialty engine to it's present state of art.
And I am still going to pick the Polo as the winner for durability.
With class! |
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cmpski
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Arvada, Co
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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Both Chevy for their Corvair and Porsche used flat fans. For Porsche it was mostly a race car thing.
Corvair used belts and pulleys. Porsche drive gears.
I got the pictures doing a search of Porsche flat fans.
Chris
_________________
Current:
1967 912 POLO 2cam4
Past:
59 356 Super w/Rudge wheels
70 914-6 W/2.2S
www.reSeeWorks.com |
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cmpski
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Arvada, Co
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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I looked into that flat fan. That one sits on a POLO. They had one at the Lit show in LA last March. It was $8000.00. They cool really well but draw about twice the hp as a upright. What your not seeing in that picture are the pulleys and belt to turn that fan.
"oprn
If you are looking for a 200 HP type 1 engine that lasts - that dinosaur has never existed. Just like the Lock Ness Monster isn't in any museum I ever heard of.
You may come close to something that resembles it today but I will guarantee there will be NONE if the bones of the original type 1 engine in it's body. And it will cost you!
And how is that different from that Polo engine?"
I am no expert on type 1 engines as I haven't owned one since about 1975. My guess though is the new cast cases in the aftermarket are stronger than the originals. I also suspect I was stressing my engine a lot more by pushing a bus through the air as opposed to a bug or ghia.
How is a POLO different. Well it's based on a 911 engine. Dean's case is virgin cast of a much more expensive and better alloy, and based on a MUCH beefed up SC/Carrera/964/993 case. SC bottom ends are known to go 300,000 miles in some cases. 200K no problem, if serviced properly. It's cast buy the guys who cast huge drag and NASCAR blocks. It has 5 main bearings. Look how far apart the mains are on a VW or 616 based 356, 912 engine. There is a main on either side of every rod. The bottom end is a tank. If you put big hp though 3 main bearing cases those cranks are going to flex a little and probably flex more later.
Notice the huge oil pump. The car carries 3 gallons of Gibbs oil and is changed like all us old school guys change oil. Every 2 or 3K.
All the early VW and Porsche engines are awesome in their own right. The POLO is just something different.
Are the newer cars faster, more comfortable, and better in many ways? Yes. Do I enjoy their driving experience more? Nope, not even close. If I didn't have my car or couldn't afford it, I'd go out and buy a Ghia as fast as I could and personalize it like a bunch of folks here on The Samba.
I drive my car 2 to 3 K a year if I stay local. About 5 K if I drive from Colorado to California and back for some Porsche events late Summer or Fall.
Chris Pomares
_________________
Current:
1967 912 POLO 2cam4
Past:
59 356 Super w/Rudge wheels
70 914-6 W/2.2S
www.reSeeWorks.com
Last edited by cmpski on Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:19 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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dsrtfox
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 443
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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| How ever.....I don't think there very many guys that daily drive a 200hp Type 1, or any air cooled VW for that mater. Most are hobby cars that get driven 2 to 3 K a year. In 30 or 40 thousand miles with your big stroker Type ! your going to have to address valves and guides so how many years will that be? Would you put a Polo engine in your pride and joy and then daily drive it, I doubt it. Just sayin... |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15023
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| cmpski wrote: |
One's perspective is one's reality. We all pursue that which seems right to our own self.
I grew up in the VW/Porsche culture of So Bay So Cal in the 60's. Driving a 67 VW bus and looking and dreaming of Porsches in Vasek Polack's window across the street from Hap Jacobs Surf in Hermosa Beach.
I've owned air (really oil) cooled, water cooled VW's and several Porsche's in the past. We're all building our own version of our ideal car. The world's first 912 POLO car is mine. I never want to do something someone else has already done.
I can see several folks on this thread have very strong feelings about their preferred power plant be it a Type one, four, or POLO. For most and certainly those with many years in the game I doubt any opinions are being changed here. So whatever your preference, enjoy.
Chris |
Well said! If you have the $ and its what you want...you will not be disappointed.
My points earlier were not a sleight at that awesome engine.....if most of what you want is the exotic and unique....and you have the cash....its very cool!
Ray |
I am with the above guys, whatever turns your crankshaft is reality and is right for you.
Here is my reality and what prompted my comment: I grew up on air cooled VWs, type 1,2&3s in the '60s and '70s. Love them! Always will have a soft spot in my heart for them.
But - time and technology moved on and left them in the dust. As did VW and for good reason. VW I believe did try but with the merger with Audi it became apparent that there were much, much better ways to go. And they did with spectacular results by the way! These results could never have been achieved with the type 1 air cooled engine.
These engines and cars are dinosaurs! We have museums for dinosaurs and The Samba is one of them!
I love coming here and browsing, so sweet to remember the old days and read about what folks are doing to preserve and enjoy the relics of the past that are dear to my own heart and up bringing.
So there are a few whoppers being told - ok fair enough. Not every Palaeontologist has it right. I get it, not many of them actually lived back there with the real thing...
So I am not trying to belittle the type 1 engine - just calling it what it is. The pinnacle of the type 1 engine from VW was the '66 Bug 1300cc 53 HP engine. It was the most dependable, longest lasting type 1 engine VW ever made. With proper care these engines were known to regularly(note: not just on occasion)run trouble free for over 100,000 miles. No other air cooled stock VW engine ever matched that in the kind of numbers that engine did.
In '69 Dad bought a brand new Bus. Type 1 1600 single port engine. Lasted 34,000 miles! Dad bought a replacement(VW factory was the builder in both cases guys!) and with extra care we got 45,000 miles out of it!
So it's the builder eh?
Over the next 6 or 7 years Dad and I learned to build engines for that Bus and other VWs that lasted longer than the factory ones. Very little attempt was made to increase HP, just longevity and that is hard won on these engines. The engine in that Bus now has 80,000 miles on it and just needing the valves done.
I guess that makes me a bad builder!
Come on guys! Anyone with a bit of mechanical ability and a basic set of hand tools can match or better the factory engines in reliability. Attention to detail is all it takes especially with all the good info and parts out there now...
If you are looking for a 200 HP type 1 engine that lasts - that dinosaur has never existed. Just like the Lock Ness Monster isn't in any museum I ever heard of.
You may come close to something that resembles it today but I will guarantee there will be NONE if the bones of the original type 1 engine in it's body. And it will cost you!
And how is that different from that Polo engine?
So here I am, started life in diapers eating Pablum(VWs), now I'm old, poor teeth an have to change my shorts every time I cough so don't rag on me for going back to where I came from and finishing my days in a beloved venerable VW. Whatever it's faults. It's just a hobby right? |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15023
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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Double post.
Last edited by oprn on Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13571
Location: Tejas!
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cmpski
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Arvada, Co
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Polo motor dream motor |
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I wish everyone who wanted one could have one. I take no pleasure in being one of the few. There are about 50 in 356's around the world. The 901 Shop in FL. has the #2 912 POLO and there are about 8 more in various stages being built around the world now. I look forward to getting some of them together in a few years.
Chris
_________________
Current:
1967 912 POLO 2cam4
Past:
59 356 Super w/Rudge wheels
70 914-6 W/2.2S
www.reSeeWorks.com |
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