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speedbuggyseb
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2004
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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I will always remember seeing this car when it was advertised for $72.000 in one of the first editions of Ultra VW Magazine. It was advertised with links to Goring and seemed a lot of money at the time, but I knew then that if I had the money I would have bought it because of the amazing history.
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1949 Split Deluxe
1954 213 VW Delivery Van
1955 Oval Deluxe RHD
1959 NSU Quickly Motorcycle
1964 SWB MK1 GP Beach Buggy |
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favguy
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2012
Posts: 269
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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I think it's the swastika on the rear wing emblem that did it. blurring it out might have avoided listing removal.
The confederate flag should be an issue. Nothing wrong with having it as part of history in a museum, but why would anyone in their right mind want an enemy flag of a losing side (and the pro slavery bad guys) flying on government buildings??!! It's akin to having the Nazi swastika flying alongside the German flag on the reichstag...
The real shocking thing is just how long it took to get rid of it! |
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Telephunken
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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Simply ridiculous that ebay would pull the ad. This car is a part of WWII history and should be treated as such. You cant erase history or things that happened by just not talking about it. its like all the fuss about confederate flags in our country. its history, you cant try to erase all evidence of the "losing side" of history, hide it from sight and act like it never happened. In this case its just a car. Its not like hes selling photos of jews being shot. If they want to ban a car because of its heritage and ties to Nazi history, they may as well ban all Volkswagens, since they were the brain child of Adolf Hitler. Or, for that matter, ban all Porsches too, since Ferdinand Porsche was a nazi sympathizer and aided them with many of his designs. If that is going too far then why ban this car? it is a Porsche design is it not? designed by a man whi served prison time for his participation in the nazi war effort.
Would they ban a kubel from being sold on ebay?
our world is just all frickin roses and unicorns these days.... |
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Wiggy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6606
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| Joe 20 wrote: |
| I didn't ask you to name them "splitjunkie" nor do I want to hero worship them...don't be an ass. It was just a nice statement because I was impressed. No more no less... |
You might want to reread his post. He wasn't the one being the ass...
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Kevin "Wiggy"
My 58 Ghia Vert
My 51 Split 11G
My 57 Deluxe
My 56 Oval |
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Joe 20
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2005
Posts: 656
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| I didn't ask you to name them "splitjunkie" nor do I want to hero worship them...don't be an ass. It was just a nice statement because I was impressed. No more no less... |
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Mr. OGPaint
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 844
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
| Joe 20 wrote: |
Well, I'm kinda impressed that a celebrity belongs to our forum...wonder how many others there are?  |
There are a couple of others I believe but in the context of this discussion group they should be treated as any other regular member. I am a member of another non car related forum with a couple of celebrities and they just want to be a member like anyone else. Some celebrities may get off on hero worship on a forum but it has been my experience that most of them don't. |
Cars are the common bond here
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Patrick Hall |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4208
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:15 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| Joe 20 wrote: |
| Well, I'm kinda impressed that a celebrity belongs to our forum...wonder how many others there are? |
There are a couple of others I believe but in the context of this discussion group they should be treated as any other regular member. I am a member of another non car related forum with a couple of celebrities and they just want to be a member like anyone else. Some celebrities may get off on hero worship on a forum but it has been my experience that most of them don't.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4208
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:08 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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I really appreciate you sharing your info on this car. Pictures of whatever you still have would be great.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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jackymorel
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Lege cap ferret FRANCE
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
| JESSEJAMES wrote: |
Bummer eBay removed it. Guess I'll just keep it then..
"Hello pope-of-welding,
Some of your listings haven’t followed our Hateful or Discriminatory policy. In this email, we're including some policy information to help you with your future listings. We also had to take the following actions:
- Listings that didn't follow eBay guidelines have been removed. A list of removed item(s) is available further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
Items with Nazi markings or items that may be considered Nazi propaganda aren't allowed on eBay.
We recognize the historical significance of World War II and that there are many militaria collectors around the world. Some WWII-related historical items are permitted. However, other Nazi-related items are not allowed, particularly when there may be legal issues involved with selling these items in different countries. These prohibited items cannot be listed even if the organization's symbols are blocked, cropped, or not shown in the listing." |
That's dumb.
The only nazi markings I see are on the badge on the right rear fender.
Pull it off, take new pictures, don't offer it for sale with the car and relist it.
I don't know of a time that ebay ever pulled a wartime VW as long as it didn't have swastikas on it. |
This badge has nothing to do on this car ! It was never on it so it is stupid. To relist the car, I suppose that the ad can 't talk about HG as a first owner. And the copy of the VW book that I made myself at the musuem should not be published because you see HG name on it. |
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jackymorel
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Lege cap ferret FRANCE
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| Joe 20 wrote: |
| Well, I'm kinda impressed that a celebrity belongs to our forum...wonder how many others there are? |
Herman Goering is a dead celebrity...! |
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jackymorel
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Lege cap ferret FRANCE
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
Very interesting info. Thanks for sharing that.
Explains a lot of the weird things about this car.
I did suspect that the transmission might not be original.
However the speedometer in the old pictures is not the same as what is currently on the car. I have never seen one like the one in the old picture. The speedo currently in the car is what you would expect to see.
What is the story on the old speedo and what leads you to believe that it was original? War time substitution due to parts shortage?
I would love to see pictures of any of the parts from this car that you still have. |
Sorry for some mistakes I made when writing the first story. I am 65 now and you know what happens when you get old ! Ah, ah...Ok yes you are right, the speedo on the car when I bought it was not original at all. Only the glass and logo were. I forgot this and it was just when I read the post that I remembered ! I had to find a type 82 speedo going to 100kmh to make it OK. I should have all the parts I've got or change from this car. I will be back to France mid may so I will dig my shelves to find them if somebody is interested to see...I probably have also more documents or pics... |
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jackymorel
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Lege cap ferret FRANCE
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
Thank you Jacky for the explanation, very interesting and thanks for saving one of the most original KdF Type 82e for future generations.
So is this data plate a repro or did you find the original from the pile of parts in the garage? The "e" does look a bit too big compared to originals:
What is the story behind this badge, not related to car I assume:
Looks like Bruce Braun was selling it for $72.000 in 2003:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=45765 |
No problem, as I had this car for 10 years and dig it from nowhere, I know it a little ! yes the data plate is a repro but really good. I had also a type 60, the Arthur Axmann's KdF and the plate was very similar. the badge on the rear as nothing to do with the car. I made a little mistake saying that the speedo was original as I remember now that the glass and logo were OK but the guy made a new speedo on the back. I had to find a 82 speedo which are the same on 82 e but not the same on Type 60 because it goes to 120KMH. Things come back little by little but I bought these two KdF in 1990-1991 and sold them early 2000 so my memory need some time ! |
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Joe 20
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2005
Posts: 656
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| Well, I'm kinda impressed that a celebrity belongs to our forum...wonder how many others there are? |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4208
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| JESSEJAMES wrote: |
Bummer eBay removed it. Guess I'll just keep it then..
"Hello pope-of-welding,
Some of your listings haven’t followed our Hateful or Discriminatory policy. In this email, we're including some policy information to help you with your future listings. We also had to take the following actions:
- Listings that didn't follow eBay guidelines have been removed. A list of removed item(s) is available further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
Items with Nazi markings or items that may be considered Nazi propaganda aren't allowed on eBay.
We recognize the historical significance of World War II and that there are many militaria collectors around the world. Some WWII-related historical items are permitted. However, other Nazi-related items are not allowed, particularly when there may be legal issues involved with selling these items in different countries. These prohibited items cannot be listed even if the organization's symbols are blocked, cropped, or not shown in the listing." |
That's dumb.
The only nazi markings I see are on the badge on the right rear fender.
Pull it off, take new pictures, don't offer it for sale with the car and relist it.
I don't know of a time that ebay ever pulled a wartime VW as long as it didn't have swastikas on it.
_________________
Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Mr. OGPaint
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 844
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| JESSEJAMES wrote: |
Bummer eBay removed it. Guess I'll just keep it then..
"Hello pope-of-welding,
Some of your listings haven’t followed our Hateful or Discriminatory policy. In this email, we're including some policy information to help you with your future listings. We also had to take the following actions:
- Listings that didn't follow eBay guidelines have been removed. A list of removed item(s) is available further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
Items with Nazi markings or items that may be considered Nazi propaganda aren't allowed on eBay.
We recognize the historical significance of World War II and that there are many militaria collectors around the world. Some WWII-related historical items are permitted. However, other Nazi-related items are not allowed, particularly when there may be legal issues involved with selling these items in different countries. These prohibited items cannot be listed even if the organization's symbols are blocked, cropped, or not shown in the listing." |
PC Police strike again. The listing attracted a lot of attention, hopefully a buyer pops out of the woodwork. Definitely a cool car to be stuck hanging onto if it doesn't sell
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Argee
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2016
Posts: 21
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| Well you could always loan it out to a military museum if you'd like to get it out of the way of your shop. There's one at Camp Mabry in Austin, they even have a Hermann Goering connection since the 36th Infantry (Texas National Guard) accepted his surrender. It would look great next to their Kubelwagen. |
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JESSEJAMES
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2005
Posts: 37
Location: L.B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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Bummer eBay removed it. Guess I'll just keep it then..
"Hello pope-of-welding,
Some of your listings haven’t followed our Hateful or Discriminatory policy. In this email, we're including some policy information to help you with your future listings. We also had to take the following actions:
- Listings that didn't follow eBay guidelines have been removed. A list of removed item(s) is available further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
Items with Nazi markings or items that may be considered Nazi propaganda aren't allowed on eBay.
We recognize the historical significance of World War II and that there are many militaria collectors around the world. Some WWII-related historical items are permitted. However, other Nazi-related items are not allowed, particularly when there may be legal issues involved with selling these items in different countries. These prohibited items cannot be listed even if the organization's symbols are blocked, cropped, or not shown in the listing." |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4208
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| jackymorel wrote: |
Hello Guys, I was sure that this ad will open to many comments...This is what I sent to the seller....
I am the guy that took this car of the darkside in 1991. First, it doesn’t come from Germany but was in Paris in 1944 because it is one of the 4 KdF delivered to Herman Goering’s office. In august 1944, a french guy from underground killed the driver and stole the car. I knew the story by a good friend of the owner. That’s why this car has the original key that open driver door, hood and also starts the engine. This guy keeped the car for all his life until his death with no heritier. The car was then sold by auction and I bought it. Two months after, I was able to buy all the VW stuff left in his garage including all the missing parts of the car. Because it had been modified by the owner during his life. First, after a light front crash before 1950, the front was modified and the hood was changed. Under the hood, a flat part was riveted in the place of the two ears that are normally on each side of all KdF. In this change, the original chassis plate and the body number were lost. And the right fender was also lost. You will notice that the left is different. On the side it comes down deeper and the shape of the headlight support is more round. At this time, the car was painted two tone : light grey and green. That the light grey you can see inside, over the sand color that appears at some spots.
In the crash, the original left spindle was bent too. So the owner decided to lower the car and put two normal spindles form a Type 1. For the rear, he decided to swap the original gearbox by one from a type 1 so the car looked more like a type 60 or type 1 than an 82 e.
In the pile of parts I’ve got after the auction, I found the original bent spindle, the original hood with the original VW KdF logo and the original lock differential. The rest of the gearbox was missing so I had to buy a spindle and a complete gearbox with reduction boxes from a type 82. The bent hood was fixed by Carrosserie Lecocq in Paris. The bent spindle showed me that they were specially made for type 82 e because it bears a number starting by 5. I still have it.
After that, to show the car at Retromobile in Paris, I painted it very fast in sand color. The interior of this car was originally sand but the chassis, front end, gas tank were felgrau. At some time on its life, a stupid guy decided to paint the chassis in black. Same for the original engine that had originally black tins and not sand. The air filter is really specific for the 82 e. The chrome bumpers have not to be painted because some of these cars, delivered to high level people were a little different and more luxury. All the handles are chromed from day one. They are the original handles that went with the car and there is no reason why the french guy chromed them. But the rear tailights should be painted sand not chromed.
The glove box are in metal and very rare. In the parts, I also found the KdF embossed plate that was normally screw instead of the radio. It is a very rare and is valuable part as the aluminium logo on the hood. The horn was absolutly complet when I sold the car and some german KdF specialist even came to see how it worked to make the same on his car ! So where is the horn cap ?
I agree to say that it is probably one of the five most original Kdf still alive. It is a pity that some « specialists » made mistakes like engine tin color, chassis color. More questions ?
Regarding the seats, you are right. When I've got the car, they were two tone vinyl like the car : grey and green. I had them painted black with a special paint. |
Very interesting info. Thanks for sharing that.
Explains a lot of the weird things about this car.
I did suspect that the transmission might not be original.
However the speedometer in the old pictures is not the same as what is currently on the car. I have never seen one like the one in the old picture. The speedo currently in the car is what you would expect to see.
What is the story on the old speedo and what leads you to believe that it was original? War time substitution due to parts shortage?
I would love to see pictures of any of the parts from this car that you still have.
_________________
Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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mikeandkirsti
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 288
Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:07 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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Thank you Jacky for the explanation, very interesting and thanks for saving one of the most original KdF Type 82e for future generations.
So is this data plate a repro or did you find the original from the pile of parts in the garage? The "e" does look a bit too big compared to originals:
What is the story behind this badge, not related to car I assume:
Looks like Bruce Braun was selling it for $72.000 in 2003:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=45765 |
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jackymorel
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Lege cap ferret FRANCE
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:00 am Post subject: Re: 1944 VW type 82e on Ebay |
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| VWmeister wrote: |
| These photos show the vin on the tunnel and the engine so there can be no confusion that it's the same car. |
It is the same car... |
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