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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79817
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| Jason0115 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| 1/4 drive M6 deep socket |
This worked like a charm, I hit the top of the socket with a hammer and the clip is in. Thanks |
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Jason0115
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2021
Posts: 113
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| 1/4 drive M6 deep socket |
This worked like a charm, I hit the top of the socket with a hammer and the clip is in. Thanks |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7513
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| Jason0115 wrote: |
How do you install the tiny circlip that is under the felt puck under the rotor? Mine was also sitting on top of two little washers loose, giving my distributor way to much vertical freeplay. Thanks |
Some people use a socket that is the right size to fit over the inner shaft and inside the outer one. I use a few small tools to snap it on. It's not easy when it's your first time. Do a few hundred and they just seem to snap on.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79817
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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1/4 drive M6 deep socket
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13544
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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I use a metal tube just a tad larger than the distributor clip shaft. A dab of grease holds the clip in place while a bop if a rubber mallet usually seats the clip nicely.
Large sheet magnets available at craft stores are handy as a work mat for small jobs like those clips and steering box bearings.
Robbie
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Jason0115
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2021
Posts: 113
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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How do you install the tiny circlip that is under the felt puck under the rotor? Mine was also sitting on top of two little washers loose, giving my distributor way to much vertical freeplay. Thanks |
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furgo
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 944
Location: Southern Germany
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:44 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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These are the ones, thanks!
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7513
Location: Houston, Texas
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79817
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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furgo
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 944
Location: Southern Germany
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| kawfee wrote: |
Those are wonderful disassembled pics.
Clean the groove up. It helps for lubrication.
Also, look inside the shaft. If your grooves are that dirty the wick in there is probably clogged/corroded as well. They are only about $1 to replace.
All parts may be found on my site http://www.vwnos.com/distributor |
Thanks. I long finished the restoration of this distributor, and two more  One was a spare, and the other I got really cheap as a core. It turned out to be fully restorable, which was great.
I should probably update the thread with the pictures of them all finished. I'll dig them out and post them in the next couple of days.
Regarding the hardware, I found everything I needed (felt wick, fiber washers a plenty, etc). The only thing I could not find were the bigger diameter shims. In one case I reused the existing one, as it still looked good. In one other case I replaced it with a couple of smaller diameter shims, which did come in the kit I posted about.
One thing I had to fabricate for one of the distributors was the fork-type piece of metal that holds the rubber bit of the capacitor in place. It seems some old type capacitors could be mounted without it, as it was an integral tipe of their fastener. New (Beru) capacitors do need that piece, so I just copied it with sheet metal from one of the other distributors I had.
Also, for the new capacitors the rubber bit/buffer leaves quite a big gap open on the case when installed. It defeats the purpose of having a dust cap at all, so I sealed the gap with some Permatex Ultra Black RTV.
Now that I've got some more info on specs and experience with axial play, I'll double check it again and post the results.
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7513
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
But.....you can have just a little bit of radial play....still be in spec....and excessive axial play will magnify its effect.
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That's a very good way of putting it.
On the other end, tight is good but you don't want it too tight (not in this instance).
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Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23234
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| kawfee wrote: |
| If you've got that much axial play you should look over the shaft for radial play. Radial play is even worse for the distributor. The dwell angle given rotation will bounce around even for the same cylinder. |
I always look for both. However its common to have excessive axial play even with virtually no radial play. Radial is just shaft bushings and shaft wear.
The axial play increases by more and faster due to wear in all the shims and washers.
But.....you can have just a little bit of radial play....still be in spec....and excessive axial play will magnify its effect.
Ray |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7513
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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If you've got that much axial play you should look over the shaft for radial play. Radial play is even worse for the distributor. The dwell angle given rotation will bounce around even for the same cylinder.
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www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23234
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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Yes....as previously noted....you do not want to remlve shims between the drive dog and the body of the distributor because you want the drive dog to stay down against its shim in the case....even though the spring "should" accomplish this.
However...the gap between body and drive dog I find to be excessive on most distributors. It has to have enough tolerance to allow some axial misalignment of the distributor drive dog and the drive pinion....meaning the drive dog needs to be able to float on its cross pin.....a little.
Typically about .010" is as much as you ever want in my experience. Closer to .007-.008"" even if you add a shim or two between the dog and the distributor body is just fine. That allows about .005" when the distributor reaches about 300°F.
This greatly reduces timing scatter and wear. Ray |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7513
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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Those are wonderful disassembled pics.
Clean the groove up. It helps for lubrication.
Also, look inside the shaft. If your grooves are that dirty the wick in there is probably clogged/corroded as well. They are only about $1 to replace.
All parts may be found on my site http://www.vwnos.com/distributor
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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furgo
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 944
Location: Southern Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| Tcash wrote: |
The kit I bought online included one fiber washer that fit the dist. shaft. It would be better to source them individually. |
Indeed, I just found out too. The one I was looking at was the Bosch distributor shaft kit, with part # 1 237 010 007, available here for €15:
https://www.wallothnesch.com/en/repair-kit-12-03-15.html
An alternative source for the kit is BMW, part # 12 11 8 630 239
(Pictures from the threads linked below)
- There is a good overview and review of the kit on this other forum: https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/187441-bosch-distributor-shims-and-washers/?page=2
- And a detailed ID with measurements of each part in the kit here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=678349
Summary: the kit has two differently-sized fiber washers. If I understand it correctly, just one of them would fit our distributors.
The other items that can be used for these distributors are:
• one type of the metal shims for the small shims
• two of the felt wicks
• the thrust washer and circlip under it.
• the o-ring
• weight retaining rings
The fiber washer in question is Bosch # 1 230 107 011, with the following dimensions:
| kawfee wrote: |
ID 12.85 mm
OD 20.49 mm
Thickness .77 mm
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I've just found some sources for the fiber washer here in Europe, which might save me the shipping from the US. Tip: this is also sold as Mercedes Benz part # 000 158 02 76
| Tcash wrote: |
| furgo wrote: |
| Any ideas of what the purpose of the metal ring is and why it's taking the place of the rubber o-ring? |
That looks like the rubber seal. It may be as hard as metal. Take a magnet to it. |
... and it was indeed rubber, not metal. Other than the fact that it was compressed and hard as a rock, the thing that threw me off was some squashed metal residue stuck on the ring. That made it look as a scratch to a black-painted metal ring.
I simply had to cut it to extract it:
In any case, o-ring mystery solved, and I've found a local source for genuine o-rings.
Excellent one source for fiber washers sorted, thanks Bill!
I think other than the axial play spec (there seem to be different opinions) most of the questions have been answered, thanks all!
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2051206
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor restoration questions |
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| furgo wrote: |
Thanks, I appreciate you looking for an alternative! While I'll come to it, I'm not yet worried about sourcing them, but to understand where and how they fit first.
I'm aware of the distributor restorers here selling them and I've seen at least one kit online that I could use. I'll post the details once I've found it again |
The kit I bought online included one fiber washer that fit the dist. shaft. It would be better to source them individually.
| furgo wrote: |
| Any ideas of what the purpose of the metal ring is and why it's taking the place of the rubber o-ring? |
That looks like the rubber seal. It may be as hard as metal. Take a magnet to it. |
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furgo
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 944
Location: Southern Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| furgo wrote: |
| asiab3 wrote: |
| The main o-ring keeps the splash of oil that enters the distributor's lower hole inside the case or distributor- no leaks allowed! |
Where is this main o-ring located, is it part of the distributor itself? As an excuse for stupid questions I'll use the fact that I didn't know anything about distributors until last week |
To answer my own question, I found out that the o-ring is fitted externally on the groove at the neck of the distributor body. It's part # 111 905 261 and still available from VW. So far, so good.
However, and coming back to the question of what this thing is, my spare distributor has got a metallic ring sitting on the space where the rubber o-ring would go. I can't imagine it would stop oil leaks, as it has the same external diameter as the distributor neck.
I'm not sure if the distributor came from a bus, but regardless, it should be the same mounting on all Type 4 engines I guess. Here's the picture of the black metal ring again:
Any ideas of what the purpose of the metal ring is and why it's taking the place of the rubber o-ring?
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furgo
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 944
Location: Southern Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor 022 905 205S restoration questions |
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| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
Good work! Love the pic of the dismembered distributor! |
Well, thank you for showing how it's done!
| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
As far as I remember the mangled plastic ring in the picture was an alternative to the circlip in one of the distributors I had. As someone said, a cheaper alternative  . If you have the circlip, I don't think you need it. |
Ah, excellent. I do have the circlip and the washer underneath, glad to see I don't have to worry about the plastic ring. Out of interest, I guess if one would come across a distributor with that plastic ring, it could just simply be replaced with a generic circlip of the right diameter?
And just as a curiosity, when I removed the wool bit that acts as oil reservoir, it revealed a circlip that was not holding the shaft, just resting on top if it, so I didn't even have to undo it. I do not know what might have caused it to come undone, but I'll double-check the fit once I re-assemble the distributor.
| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
| The fibre washers should take up most of the axial play. If not, there are some shims in the elusive Bosch repair kit. I don't think it is a disaster to have too much play, but as asiab3 said, you might get timing scatter. My guess is that a clean, lubricated distributor with excess play is better than nothing. |
Perfect. On a related note, I just came across this comment on this thread, which points to axial play not being something to worry much about:
| Amskeptic wrote: |
Axial play is not only not-a-big-deal but necessary for thermal expansion, the spring between the driveshaft and the distributor makes sure that axial play does not actually occur when installed. |
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